Popcaan

Popcaan

 

Photo: Destinee Condison

 
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Popcaan Talks 'FIXTAPE,' Working With Drake And The Globalization Of Dancehall And Reggae

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GRAMMY.com spoke with the dancehall star about the global reach of 'FIXTAPE,' his personal relationship with "big bro" Drake and the Black Lives Matter protests in Jamaica
John Ochoa
GRAMMYs
Sep 29, 2020 - 10:58 am

Popcaan is on a mission to spread the good vibrations of dancehall around the world. He might do exactly that via his latest release, FIXTAPE.

Released last month (Aug. 7), FIXTAPE sees the Jamaica-born star taking dancehall into rap and R&B territory with the assist of some key collaborators: French Montana, PARTYNEXTDOOR and, most notably, Drake, whose OVO Sound label released the project. 

For Popcaan, who sees the worlds of dancehall, reggae, rap and R&B as part of the same extended family, the Drake link has been instrumental for the rapid growth of his own career as well as the international expansion of dancehall itself. 

"By being around Drake and the whole connection, it gave me a lot of exposure," Popcaan tells GRAMMY.com via Zoom from East Jamaica. "We have a chemistry where music is concerned and whatever we do, it's always [about] just [doing] something great … It's a very great link, and it's very good for my culture as well."

The cross-genre approach has helped Popcaan climb the U.S. charts—FIXTAPE peaked at No. 2 on Billboard's Reggae Albums chart—and reach new global audiences.

"It definitely speaks across the world," the deejay/singer says of FIXTAPE, which is his second mixtape, adding that the dancehall genre as a whole is also expanding with "more and more people getting to listen" to the Jamaican-made style of music.  

As global genres like Afrobeats and K-pop, boosted by the ubiquity of streaming services and YouTube's universal reach, continue to rise around the world, the industry is looking to Jamaica as the next pop cultural breeding ground. Can it happen? 

Popcaan says yes.

"I want dancehall and reggae music to be out there just as much as hip-hop and R&B," he reflects. "I want it straight across the world, and not just me. I want a lot of stars just popping up, and I know that they're coming from my culture. That's my dream right now."

GRAMMY.com spoke with the dancehall star about the global reach of FIXTAPE, his personal relationship with "big bro" Drake and the Black Lives Matter protests in Jamaica.

Last month, you released FIXTAPE, which dropped on Unruly and Drake's OVO Sound label. Pitchfork described the project as "dancehall that is aware of global trends." Do you think FIXTAPE speaks to global audiences beyond the dancehall fan base?

Yeah, it definitely did, because it's a mixture of different genres. So it definitely speaks across the world.

What I took away from what the writer was saying is that a lot of audiences are turning to dancehall and reggae, maybe for the first time ever, with both genres becoming globally mainstream lately. Have you seen your genre grow beyond your audiences in Jamaica and audiences in that region?

Yeah, definitely ... even with myself, as an example, [and the] things that I've accomplished ... Even my London concert—there's no dancehall artist that ever pulled so much people in London. Every day, I think it's getting better. More and more people getting to listen.

In terms of genre crossovers, FIXTAPE features a lot of cool rap and R&B collaborations, including songs with Drake, French Montana and PARTYNEXTDOOR. What is the relationship between dancehall/reggae and rap/R&B? Do you see a lot of crossover within these sounds and the fan communities that follow these genres?

Yeah, I think it's the same thing. It's like a family. Like you're a family with five brothers, and different people branch off and do different things. But at the end of the day, it's family. This is why I was thinking [to] connect and make music with a rapper, an Afrobeats artist, and a R&B artist. Because at the end of the day, the music is supposed to be a uniting thing.

I love that. Speaking of family, you joined Drake's OVO Sound family in 2018. Tell me about your personal and working relationship with Drake. What does he add or bring to your music?

By being around Drake and the whole connection, it gave me a lot of exposure. We have a chemistry where music is concerned and whatever we do, it's always [about] just [doing] something great.

Separate and apart from that, Drake is like my brother, like my big bro. When we're not working, we can have a bite like a family, same way. We chill, we party. We share experiences with each other about when we was growing up and our musical journey. It's a very great link, and it's very good for my culture as well.

Does Drake come out to party in Jamaica with you and your crew?

Yeah, he came to my concert [in 2018]. Drake and Tory Lanez came to that concert. It's called Unruly Fest.

Read: Skip Marley Asks Us To "Slow Down" For Press Play

Let's talk about Jamaica a little bit. It's been a big year for reggae and the wider Jamaican music community. This year, the reggae community is celebrating the 75th birthday of Bob Marley, who is a giant icon in the genre.

Yeah, and we also lost an icon, too.

You did. So this year, you have a beautiful celebration of Bob Marley and a big, tragic loss with the recent death of Toots Hibbert this month.

Yeah, that's the way the universe works.

Indeed. Can you tell me about your relationship with those two artists? Did they have an influence on you growing up or on your music?

You know, everybody listen to Bob Marley and Toots' music. I just have to say I appreciate what they did for the culture and for the music, and I hope their souls rest in peace and they're just always [keeping] their memories active. Because a lot of those songs is even older than some of my friends and some of my kids, and they're still playing today. Both Toots and Bob Marley played a major role within our music. I salute both of them.

Absolutely. I think Bob Marley and Toots Hibbert have both left behind a big legacy in music. Have you thought about what kind of legacy you want to leave with your own music?

Well, I don't think about dying, so ...

Too soon to think about that?

I don't think about those things. I think positive things, fam.

Good. I like that.

I'm already creating a legacy, so I know that it will be a large one.

Let's take it back to Unruly Fest, the festival you launched in 2018. What was your original vision for the festival?

First of all, St. Thomas Parish [where Unruly Fest takes place] is the poorest parish in Jamaica. I'm from St. Thomas, and we don't have certain things like other parishes. So I was planning this show for a while because I wanted to shed some light on [St. Thomas]. Give people reasons to go [to] St. Thomas.

When we did [the concert], it was very successful, and the second year was even bigger. It even do greater than what I expected because at the time when I was planning that show, I didn't even meet Drake. So everything just fall into place really well.

That concert is like one of the biggest concerts in Jamaica right now, and it's just the second year. People always looking forward to it. Even though it's a pandemic, people asking, "Will there be Unruly Fest?"

I saw that Jamaica opened its borders to visitors and travelers in June. Given that we're in a pandemic, does it look like Unruly Fest is going to come back for 2020?

No, we're not keeping it this year.

You've got to keep it safe, huh?

Yeah, I'm trying to stay on the safe side.

That's smart. Who is your dream guest or guests for Unruly Fest? Who are some of the artists you would want to bring out to the festival when it returns?

Honestly, I don't have a dream guest. Unruly Fest is a place that anyone can pull up; it's that kind of festival. I would love [for] every big artist in the world to be there—to share the experience and feel the vibe.

I was watching videos from Unruly Fest 2019, and I saw that you came to the stage flying on a crane like a Jamaican Superman. How are you planning to top that entrance for the next Unruly Fest?

[Laughs.] Well, I've been thinking about it, but I can't say what I will do. But I know I will top it when the time comes.

In a recent interview with the New York City radio station Hot 97, you talked about the protests against racism and police brutality happening in Jamaica. You said something that really stood out to me: "Jamaicans share the same pain as Americans … a lot of Jamaicans feel it when those things happens." What did you mean by that?

Because in Jamaica, we're so strong on the American culture and we have so much friends and family in America. Our people listen to a lot of hip-hop music, so they're in tune to what's going on in America. When things happen in America, it have an effect in Jamaica as well, especially things like those [events]. Because in Jamaica, we share the same struggles as well. Police shoot innocent youths here all the time, so it's the same thing.

Absolutely. George Floyd and Breonna Taylor are only two of the many Black citizens who were killed at the hands of police recently, two events that have sparked protests across the U.S. And even though they happened in America, it sounds like those events impacted Jamaica.

Yeah, man, definitely. It's a madness all around. Everyone was upset about it as well in Jamaica. As I told everyone in previous interviews I did, we have to just protect ourselves and our families. Black people need to support each other, and as a new generation, we need to stick together to help shape the mindsets of generations to come.

Read: "Care For The Culture" Livestream Panel Offers New Solutions For Wellness + Community in Rap, R&B and Reggae 

You have a lot in the works in the visual front. You have a few music videos coming up as well as a documentary you're shooting in Jamaica. Can you tell me about the music videos you're currently working on?

I'm in Jamaica right now, and there, they're shooting a music video for a song on this album that is called Unruly. We out there just doing that music video right now; we're almost finished … I'm also working on some videos from off my FIXTAPE, but I won't say which ones yet.

Tell me about your upcoming documentary. What's the story you're trying to capture in the film?

There's a documentary that I'm going to do on my own life story. But this documentary that I'm doing now is just like a prayer documentary—something that gives people motivation. They can listen to it when they wake up, they can listen before they go to sleep. So it's just like a reference documentary, just meeting fans and praying.

Obviously, you're a big music star in your homeland. Do you feel like the Jamaican community looks up to you as an artist and as a role model?

Yeah, of course. Definitely. A lot of people look up to me, but not everybody. And that's the way the world is. Not everyone is going to look up to you or appreciate what you do. So you have to just appreciate yourself and appreciate the love that you get.

Reggae, dancehall, Afrobeats are all really blowing up right now across the world. Where do you want to see your genres, specifically dancehall and reggae, go next?

I want dancehall and reggae music to be out there just as much as hip-hop and R&B. I want it straight across the world, and not just me. I want a lot of stars just popping up, and I know that they're coming from my culture. That's my dream right now.

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Spice

Spice

Photo: Sterling Pics

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Spice Talks New Album 'Ten,' Working With Sean Paul & Shaggy: "I'm So Grateful"

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Dancehall queen Spice's new album 'Ten,' which features appearances from Sean Paul and Shaggy, is a joyful tribute to that world
Morgan Enos
GRAMMYs
Jul 27, 2021 - 1:23 pm

The music business is a global breeding ground for ambition and enterprise, but arguably nowhere more so than Jamaica. The dancehall superstar Spice gets hers from a basic, upsetting truth: her scene has been pillaged for musical riches without getting the global credit it deserves.

"We're still ambitious because it's been around for three decades and there are still artists trying to be impactful and known there," she proclaims to GRAMMY.com. "I would say we are very ambitious to still be going after 30 years, 40 years." Rather than be hobbled by these hurdles, she went on to be unstoppable in the dancehall scene — and work with two of mainstream reggae's leading lights.

Indeed, Shaggy and Sean Paul appear together for the first time ever on Spice's new single, "Go Down Deh," which just cracked 20 million views on YouTube. The percolating tune is included on her new album, Ten, which will be released on her birthday, August 6.

True to its title, the 15-track collection was in limbo for a decade due to label tumult. Now, listeners can hear her message loud and clear: Dancehall and reggae are for everyone, and it all began in Jamaica.

GRAMMY.com caught up with Spice over Zoom about her rags-to-riches story, why the world of dancehall is far richer than most give it credit for and how she feels now that Ten is finally on the horizon.

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.

You mention dancehall culture in the press release. While I'm very aware of the genre, I'm less knowledgeable about the vibe and culture surrounding it. How would you describe it?

Let me start out by saying that a lot of people don't know that dancehall is a place. Dancehall is actually a place where people go to dance and have fun. It's a very energetic genre. A lot of people from different cultures take from dancehall. Kool Herc was playing dancehall in New York, and that's where hip-hop was birthed. A lot of people don't know that dancehall has been very impactful.

I imagine that there are myriad varieties within dancehall, too. It's not just one thing.

Definitely, there are different sounds within the dancehall genre. Different types of style and sound. You have old-school dancehall, modern dancehall — everything is kind of different. Every artist always puts their unique style to it, so it has changed over the years.

Do you consider yourself exclusively a dancehall musician, or is that just one trick you've got up your sleeve?

I do a bit of reggae as well. I would definitely say I just represent Jamaican music, which is dancehall and reggae at the same time. I do dancehall sometimes; sometimes, you hear me do a little more cool end of the style. I know you would be more familiar with a Bob Marley type of song, so a Bob Marley style would be reggae. But when Spice [comes] out more and I spit lyrics [over] a more hardcore bass/drum [beat], that's dancehall.

Is this the truest dancehall music you've made, or have you gone more dancehall in the past?

I definitely have been more dancehall in the past. One of my biggest hits is "So Mi Like It"; it has almost 100 million views. I'm known for doing hardcore dancehall music.

But these days, it seems like you're more interested in blending it with whichever inspirations come your way.

Definitely. I would definitely say that. My fanbase and audience know me for that type of music, too — hardcore dancehall. It wasn't surprising that "Go Down Deh" with Shaggy and Sean Paul was so impactful and that it did so majorly and so very well.

Read More: The Women Essential To Reggae And Dancehall

What compelled you to seek out those two artists as collaborators? Do you go back with those guys?

Well, I've known them over the years. I've been a fan of both of them. I was the one who reached out to Shaggy and I said, "Hey, I think we need to do a song together." He answered me the same day and was like, "Come to my studio. I have a ranch in New York." I went to New York and we discovered "Go Down Deh," the track. It was just so amazing.

I said, "Can you imagine what would happen if I had Sean Paul on this track?" He was receptive to it, so we reached out to Sean Paul. We sent him the track; Sean Paul was already on it. Within 24 hours, Sean Paul sent me back his part with his verse. I tell people that this was the easiest song to put together. A lot of people thought it would be one of the most difficult tasks, but it was the easiest.

What do you appreciate about the specific chemistry between you three?

What I really appreciate is the fact that we are all from Jamaica. When I was promoting it, I just put out "SSS" and everyone was like, "What is SSS?" I said, "Spice, Shaggy and Sean Paul." But what I appreciate more about it is that I'm just so humbled over the fact that it's two of the big legends who have done so well for the genre. Shaggy, he sold diamond.

I'm just humbled that they were able to come together for the first time on the lead single from my album. Every day, I give thanks, and I'm so grateful to these two legends for being able to be part of my album.

Because all three of you are from Jamaica, is there a sense of silent communication or understanding?

Most definitely. At the end of the day, when Sean Paul does his interviews, he says "I've been a fan of Spice for so many years." And I myself have looked up to Sean Paul and Shaggy for so many years. A lot of people don't know that we all came from humble beginnings, you know?

Growing up in Jamaica as a third-world country hasn't been easy for any of us. We have managed to struggle and come from a background where we basically had nothing and embrace our culture. We took it to the world and showcased it to the world. We all have similar paths. So now that we are together, I do say we share similarities in that aspect of where we're coming from.

I feel like most Americans are aware of the tumult in that region, but not of the specifics. What was challenging about your upbringing?

Let me speak basically from my point of view and perspective and from where I'm coming from: I come from humble beginnings, meaning I had basically nothing. 

I remember going to school with no food, no money, not even knowing how I was going to get back home. I had to beg people to put money together to pay my fare, to take a taxi or a bus. There were nights I went without food and stuff like that. My slope right now is from homeless to owning houses. I remember at one point, I lost my home to fire and I was literally homeless. Sleeping at friends' and family's and things like that.

So, the struggle for me is something like that, but all of us share the same thing of wanting to become international. Having a wider audience. Shaggy and Sean Paul have done that impactfully for the genre. They have crossed over so the American audience knows that, and that's the dream for every Jamaican artist: to be known worldwide, or widely here in America.

Is there a certain strain of ambition unique to Jamaican artists?

I would definitely say that we Jamaican artists are very ambitious. We strive to have our music known widely. So many people have taken so much from dancehall culture, so we still are known as the underdogs. 

People don't give us the ratings that our culture deserves. So, we're still ambitious because it's been around for three decades and there are still artists trying to be impactful and known there. I would say we are very ambitious to still be going after 30 years, 40 years.

Oftentimes, the media puts things out there to make it seem like we're fighting with each other, fighting against each other. I'm really humbled and grateful to show that together, we are more of a force to be reckoned with. When this song came out — it's actually still trending in Jamaica right now, the music video — people appreciated the fact that we were able to come together and create this song.

So, I just want people to know that we are together. I love the unity that's happening right now within dancehall and reggae music. I'm just humbled that Shaggy and Sean Paul came together on this track. It has never been done before.

Spice

Spice. Photo: Sterling Pics

Where did that stereotype of constant conflict come from?

Sometimes, I see people who are like, "Oh, I want to come to Jamaica, but I'm scared." I'm like, "OK, why are you scared?" They're like, "Oh, because people are dying." I feel like sometimes the news media puts out the bad parts about Jamaica or its music or culture. 

Sometimes, people say it's derogatory because we sing about wining a lot and the gyration of the waist. But at the end of the day, so many tourists come to Jamaica because of its music. People come to dance and have fun. They see things that they don't see here in America.

I can speak because I'm here in Atlanta and I go to the club all the time: When people dance here, they're on their feet. They're dancing. In Jamaica, people are spinning on their heads. Their culture is very unique and different and I just wish more media will cover the better aspect of Jamaica because Jamaica is a beautiful place. 

So are the genre and the music. There are so many good things there to discover, rather than talking about people who come there and who are dying and stuff like that. That's just my dream: to see people in the media showcase the better parts about Jamaica and its music and culture.

How do you feel now that Ten is on the way?

I'm just anxious and I can't wait! It's called Ten because it's been 10 years that my fans have been waiting for this project. I'm just happy and excited for them because coming off the pandemic, people just can't wait to be outside and partying again and seeing their friends and having a good time. I just want everybody to embrace themselves for my album project because it's going to be amazing.

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Usain Bolt & Nugent "NJ" Walker pose among the clouds

Usain Bolt & Nugent "NJ" Walker

Photo: Jay Enigma

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Olympian Usain Bolt Gives Track New Meaning In Debut Reggae Album, ‘Country Yutes’

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Jamaican gold medalist and musician Usain Bolt joins GRAMMY.com to discuss his musical upbringing, working with best friend NJ on his new album, 'Country Yutes,' and his run-in with Drake
Mustafa Abubaker
GRAMMYs
Sep 9, 2021 - 2:11 pm

It's only right Usain Bolt is in a sprinter van.

It's just past noon and the Jamaican gold medal sprinter is in a cozy Dolce & Gabbana hoodie traveling towards London where the weather's cooled off and the twilight summer September sun's blocked by clouds. Lately, Bolt's got a melodic itch he can't scratch hard enough if he had more than two hands. He owes this burning calling to cherished childhood memories tagging along with his father Wellesley to community concerts. It was there he grew up on Bob Marley, Bounty Killer and Beenie Man.

The itch gives way to a craving and the craving gives way to an insatiable appetite for RAD music–or reggae, Afrobeats and dancehall–all packaged up into an album aptly called Country Yutes, a body of music winking at Bolt's past as a kid in rural Sherwood Content, a small town in Trelawny Parish, Jamaica.

Following his family's relocation to the city Kingston in his promising youth, Bolt felt less than welcomed coming from what he calls the country. His story makes a full circle now, as he recorded the very album winking at those Sherwood Content days inside Kingston Big Yard recording studio in the Eastwood Park neighborhood.

This may come as a surprise to those more tapped into Bolt's sprints on tracks rather than his vocals. Either way, his runs on the tracks making up Country Yutes issue informed direction when it comes to respecting the storied sounds he's contributing to. At 35 years old, Bolt's activity in music dates back to a self-released 2019 mixtape. He's worked on music with dancehall stars such as Dexta Daps and Baby Cham. More comfortable in his role as a DJ Khaled-esque vibes curator and executive producer than ever before, Usain Bolt kept things close to home on Country Yutes, enlisting a childhood best friend Nugent "NJ" Walker to play leadman.

Speaking to Reggaeville, NJ let on that he played the keyboard in church. The friends assembled Country Yutes in a single room within the two-room studio note by note. The songs happened naturally. Released Sept. 3 on A-Team Lifestyle and United Masters, Bolt joins GRAMMY.com to discuss his musical upbringing, his album, and his run-in with Drake.

What's your earliest memory of music?

I'm from the country. Growing up, we started listening to Bob Marley at the age of six because there was a thing in Jamaica called Round-Robin that our parents would go to. At a young age, my dad would take me to go to the early part and send me home at night. That's my earliest part of all this.

Related: Popcaan Talks 'FIXTAPE,' Working With Drake And The Globalization Of Dancehall And Reggae

How musical is your family?

None of us played any instrument. I tried to play piano once. I wasn't very good.

Did you take lessons?

Mainly just in school and in music class, it was a little bit more difficult than I thought, so I just stuck to track and field.

Is the album title Country Yutes referencing your childhood?

Yeah, that's where I'm from. It's something that I came up with true to life. When we came to Kingston, we faced some challenges like oh, we're from the country. We got some negative feedback, some classicism. We're country. That's how we came up with the actual name of the album.

When was the first time you walked into a recording studio for this album?

It was sometime last year. Music was something we actually wanted to do. We felt the energy. Late last year we felt like we should do an album to put ourselves out there. That's when we started thinking about getting rhythms together.

Did you record in the United States?

No, in Jamaica. All in Jamaica.

In Trelawny?

In Kingston. We live in Kingston now.

What was the name of the studio?

Big Yards studio.

Read: How Music Is Helping The NBA's Top Lyricists Rebound In Orlando "Bubble," At-Home Quarantines & Beyond

Why do you think artists want to be athletes and athletes want to be artists?

We enjoy music as athletes. It helped hype us up or calm us down depending on the type of genre. For the artists, it's all about the hype to come to a sporting event to watch athletes perform at a high level. For me I've really been into that from a young age.

Why do you think it's taken so long for dancehall to become this popular globally?

I don't know, but for me dancehall music was always there. Shabba Ranks… all these guys over the years. Bob Marley impacted the world so much. People are really taking to it. People are putting effort into their music. Reggae music and dancehall have been on the scene for a minute. Hip-hop people always talk about reggae and dancehall. For me, Afrobeats came onto the scene and impacted the music industry.

What was the first song you made for the album?

"LIVING THE DREAM" was the first single we put out for the album. They said we shouldn't do music because we're track athletes. We did it to show people. As a youth, I didn't know I could be the fastest man in the world. Just living the dream and working hard, you know what I mean.

What was the last song you made for the album?

"RIP MY G." It's really about my friend Germaine Mason. He was a Jamaican high jumper who represented Great Britain. He died in a motorcycle accident in 2016. For me, that's what it was all about. We wanted to pay tribute to him.

Will you release more music videos?

Yeah but we're waiting to see what people like and then we'll do some videos for those.

How many songwriters did you bring in?

It was just my best friend and I. We just listened to music, put pen to paper, had different ideas and made it happen.

Were there songs you had to leave off the album?

Yeah, definitely. A few songs.

Sample clearance issues?

No, in music you have to be true to yourself. They just didn't fit.

Will you tour this album?

All depends on how it goes. The world is crazy right now but then again we'll see.

How much unreleased music do you have in the vault?

We just started music. We have a few but not a lot. We're working with a few artists over time. We just got into music.

What inspired the song "Days Like This?"

For me, it's just what people go through. Ups and downs. People look at me and think I live a perfect life. The album is about different levels. We're trying to show the world we're here to stay. We want to show them we're more than one dimension. That's why we switch from reggae and dancehall, with messages to music that makes you think.

What was the vision for the album cover?

NJ and I sat down and discussed. We took a weekend. We actually like the one we came up with. It gives a certain energy. I really enjoy it.

Did you sequence this tracklist yourself?

I'm not even going to lie, NJ did most of the sequencing. He sequenced the tracks how he wanted it.

What are your thoughts on dancehall in the States?

I think it fell off a bit but it's starting to come back. Koffee is always on top doing great [there]. It's just one of those things.

Lately, have you had time to record?

We dabble here and there but the focus is on the promotion, to get it to every corner of the world. The focus is to get it out and promote it as much as possible.

Why do you think athletes get backlash when they do something different?

People put us in a box. They want us to keep going until we retire. For me, track and field was great for me. That was a chapter of my life. Now I want to move onto another chapter. I never really listen to critiques. I've been going through that all my life. It's a part of it. I'm just going to work hard and dedicate myself to my craft.

What was your vision for the features?

It's just people that we know from the start. We're not trying to do too much, that's why there's only two features. It's just to get the music out there so people can see the level we're at and the moves we can make. When people start hearing and believing, we'll do more collaborations with different people.

Do you feel as if you could have gotten any features you wanted?

I'm not even truly thinking about that off bat. We got a lot of pushback at the start. It was all about just making music; "Yo we're serious." We didn't want to go to anybody and say, because I know them, "Let's do a collab," and they do it just because.

I want them to do it because I want them to believe in the music we're making. I didn't reach out to anyone. For me, this album is everything. I want to hear feedback and what people really think about the music and the work that we put in and if they think it's good or if it could be better. That's why we put time into it and put it out there for people to hear.

Do you think major labels and artists will respect you more for that?

I definitely think so. People could do it because of who I am, but I don't want them to do me a favor. I want them to see I really put the effort in.

Have you received feedback from industry people?

[In] the interviews I've done, I've gotten positive feedback. It's all been positive. Hopefully we continue on that trend.

How come we didn't see any bars on this album like we did in your late night television rap battle with James Corden a few years back?

I definitely want to mix it up but I have to start somewhere. So for me I want to start with reggae music and stick to our culture and then I can veer off in different ways.

Have you noticed the difference between making music and the actual music business?

Definitely. It's difficult, that's one thing I've learned. It's one of the major reasons why I did the first album with mainly just my friend. It's hard to get my people to record. I said 12, they show up at 6. They want to record for two hours and go. I said, you know what, let's just do this first and then we can start putting things together in a few years for a proper, different album.

What inspired the label name A-Team Lifestyle?

A-Team Lifestyle is something my friends and I came up with. We hang out all the time. That's our lifestyle. It's a lifestyle of what we live and we're just going to put it into the music.

Did you record most of this album during the day or at night?

Anytime we got inspired but I think it was mostly at night. It was easier. Quieter. Not as many people in and out.

Do you think that's because you lived a full day and had the opportunity to extract your daily experience at night?

For me, it was just better. The energy was just better. Sometimes our friend would be there. Sometimes it would be just us. Sometimes we'd just feed off the rhythm with friends and throw ideas out there.

What are your studio rules?

We don't have studio rules. I don't think we're there [yet].

So you don't have any pet peeves in the studio?

For me, we always just try to give ideas. If you really don't like something, speak up. That's one thing I've learned. A lot of guys don't like to be told that that shit doesn't sound good. They think you're a weird person. But sometimes you need someone to tell you that. Speak up so then we can discuss it.

Were you working out during the listening of this album?

Yeah. I'll listen and say we need more bass here or move the tune a little bit. It's good to listen to the music in the gym sometimes. I didn't do it a lot but I did a few times.

Would the gym and the road-trip be good listening environments for this album?

The gym overall and the road trip are the two things you will enjoy. Those give you time to listen to the full album while you're working out or traveling so you can pick your favorite song and pick your playlist.

Have you given some thought to building a home studio?

Definitely. I'm actually in the process of getting my house done. We just adjusted to put the studio inside.

Have you gotten into the habit of recording voice notes when inspired or when you think of a good idea?

Definitely. I keep a notepad. If I hear something, I would text it to NJ and say "What do you think about this?" One thing I've learned is music is different nowadays. Back in the day I think people were too focused on getting music too perfect. Because of social media, no matter how silly it might sound to you, that's what people might like.

How will your social media presence benefit your album?

I think it will help. A lot of my fans are stuck on me being a track athlete but they are coming around. It will take time. They give me good energy and good vibes. I'm getting new fans who are into music.

Do you plan on DJing?

DJing is something I will do. My biggest goal is to be like a DJ Khaled. When I was running, I would DJ at the after-parties. I understand music as a DJ. I'm not perfect but I can do it. I'm a hype guy.

Which celebrity artists have you met and received advice from?

I've had that discussion with Drake, he's really cool. We talked about life in general and how tough music is, especially about the tours he was doing. That was something.

What would you tell your 18-year-old self?

I really don't know. Well, it would be pertaining to track and field. Get serious early in life. That's what I would tell him.

Up Close & Personal: DJ Khaled Talks 'KHALED KHALED,' Brotherhood With JAY-Z & Nas, And Deep Love Of Reggae

House Gospel Choir

House Gospel Choir

Photo: Dan Reid

 
News

Meet House Gospel Choir: The London Vocal Group Bringing Faith To The Dance Floor

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GRAMMY.com caught up with House Gospel Choir to discuss their debut album, 'RE//CHOIRED,' their creative process, and how the band's multicultural and multifaith composition creates a welcoming space for both its members and audiences
John Ochoa
GRAMMYs
Oct 30, 2020 - 6:49 pm

Anyone who's ever spent time at a club or festival has experienced the divine power of the dance floor: the rolling bass, the pumping rhythms, the vibrant atmosphere. While the blinding lights of the stage can often look like the gates of heaven opening, it's the communal feeling shared among fellow ravers and concertgoers that truly defines a proper dance floor. 

House Gospel Choir (HGC) know this better than anyone. Uniting the uplifting force of spirituality with the kinetic energy of dance music, HGC is a London-based vocal group bringing faith to the dance floor. Their unique style pairs two very distinct sounds—house music meets gospel—many would never think to combine, but that actually share a musical lineage. While house music is rooted in disco, the genre's pioneers and early tracks sampled gospel singers and hymns and featured spiritual lyrics: See trailblazing house classics like Joe Smooth's "Promised Land" and Underground Ministries' "I Shall Not Be Moved."

HGC now continue this musical legacy on their debut album RE//CHOIRED, released this month (Oct. 23), which sees the group completely reimagining house classics, like "Gypsy Woman" by Crystal Waters, as well as current dance anthems, including "Latch" by Disclosure featuring Sam Smith. The album also features original tracks from HGC, including collaborations with house legend Todd Terry, and contributions from leading dance producers like DJ Spen, GRAMMY winner Alex Metric, Wookie and Toddla T.

GRAMMY.com caught up with House Gospel Choir creative director and founder Natalie Maddix and member Laura Leon to discuss their debut album, RE//CHOIRED, the group's creative process, and how the band's multicultural and multifaith composition creates a welcoming space on the dance floor for both its members and audiences.

The concept of House Gospel Choir is very interesting and unique. I'm curious to learn more about how you came up with the idea of a gospel choir that sings house music.

Natalie Maddix: I came up with the idea because I love to sing and I love to rave. I love house music and I love singing. I think there's a really strong tradition of gospel vocalists singing all the house tunes I love. Gospel house as a genre, it exists and it's been around for a long time, but I wasn't aware of any other choirs singing [house music] … So yeah, it's mainly just because I like to party, and it's that feeling of being on the dance floor and getting to sing with everyone …

Beyond that, I'm a massive fan of vocalists, and I was always a bit confused as to why I never knew the singers' names on some of my favorite house tunes. So I just started digging and I just found all these other great songs with gospel vocalists on them or vocalists that started off in church, I suppose.

And it just kind of clicked. It actually clicked because I saw there was a Frankie Knuckles quote I read when I was doing some research just about gospel house, and it was, "House music is church for people that have fallen from grace." You know when you read something and it just hits you in your chest? And I was like, "Yeah, that's what that feeling is." 

That's what I love about raving, that community, that communion. I've had some nights out that do feel very spiritual and transcendent in some ways. I think Frankie Knuckles, being the godfather of house, just summed it up perfectly.

Your debut album, RE//CHOIRED—a very clever, fantastic title, by the way—features covers and reimaginations of house classics like "Gypsy Woman" by Crystal Waters as well as newer classics like "Latch" by Disclosure featuring Sam Smith. Can you tell me more about how you approach your song selections when it comes to your covers?

Maddix: The main thing is [House Gospel Choir] started off with the live show. The intention was to have it feel like a DJ set. So the songs were seamlessly all mixed together, but you had live vocalists with it and you had a blooming gospel choir with the DJ. Through just practice and doing vocal arrangements and trying things out, it's like I come to the table with all of my favorite house tunes, and some of them should [be] left alone, should not make gospel versions of some of them.

Then there [are] other songs that really lent themselves to this way of reimagining what the song is. I think the vocal arrangement, the ability to make it into a House Gospel Choir sound, is one side. But the other bit is actually the message ... "Beautiful People" was the first song that we ever learned, and that was the first song I brought to the choir. I just think I needed that message at the time ... the messaging behind that [song] really was one of the big reasons we decided to do that one.

[For] "Gypsy Woman," we listened to it for so many years, and it's just like one of the biggest party records ever made ... and I don't think I'd ever really listened to the words. And then I sat down and I was like, "Wow, she's actually singing about someone being homeless." I found an interview where Crystal Walters was talking about the lady this song's about, and it just really struck me that there [are] so many people that don't have a home.

Like in a really basic way, we're talking about displaced people across all walks of life, not just homelessness. We started thinking about refugees. So the song just took on a totally different meaning and we felt it was a great way to just remind people, encourage people to look around when you're out on the streets. As much as you hear this song all the time and as much as you might walk down the same street every day, there are other things going on inside of that.

The album also features original tracks from the group, like "My Zulu," a collaboration with Todd Terry. Tell me about the creative process behind your original tracks.

Maddix: Our intention behind those originals was most definitely "future classics," because we were like, "We have to be able to make tracks to stand up against these absolute massive hits." Obviously, it's a huge task, but we just thought, "Let's try, let's just do it." We started off with a bit of a wishlist of who we wanted to collaborate with. And we've kind of crossed everyone off that list. It's been an amazing journey ... We just really wanted to pay homage and make sure that those original creators [of the songs] really gave this project the stamp of approval that it deserves. We've taken all the time to make sure that everyone is fully aware and supportive of what we do.

Laura Leon: With the originals, creatively, there's been quite a few different processes; it's not always been the same ... But I think, all the time, the intention is there; we go into the session, we say, "What is our intention?"

There are several tracks on RE//CHOIRED that reference religion and God. It reminds me of conversations I've had with ravers and dance music fans who've said they found religion and salvation on the dance floor. There are a lot of songs and artists who've talked about this "God on the dance floor" concept as well. Could you speak on this house-meets-religion concept? What is the theory there? And how does it relate to what HGC is doing?

Maddix: I grew up in church. So I went to church before I could speak, I suppose. And I did Sunday school religiously for years. I got to a point where, as a teenager, I was probably a little bit confused about the Christian faith I'd, in a way, been given, been born into as more of a birthright than a discovery of that faith. I went to Pentecostal Sunday school, I went to Anglican primary school and a Catholic secondary school. And they were all very different explorations of Christianity and the Bible; I think I was just a bit confused.

I still go to church, but I snuck into my first rave when I was about 13. It was an under-18 [event], so don't worry. Immediately, the feeling of being on the dance floor and singing songs ... I immediately felt the same way I felt like [in] my favorite days in Sunday school when we were all singing and just being together and that sense of community. I found it instantly on the dance floor in a way, but with less restrictions ... So that connection between the two things, having that community and togetherness feeling, is there.

Beyond that, the originators of the sound would have come out of a gospel tradition or a religious tradition, and that is reflected in the music, especially in the early house tracks; I'd say to a certain extent even in current house [as well], but the link is just not directly there. For me, it's the same experience, it's the same expression.

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I think House Gospel Choir's project is really important because there doesn't seem to be any conversation about faith in mainstream culture at the moment. So it's just to have that conversation. I consider myself to be a spiritual person. There are loads of different types of faiths within the choir … We have people from all walks of life within the choir. We have people that came [who] have no faith and are figuring it out. My only thing is, there is definitely something, and I'm all right with people not being able to describe it or explain it.

But when we sing a gospel song and you look into the audience of people that maybe have just come for a rave and they're crying or they're having those moments, I think it's just worth a conversation, and House Gospel Choir is here to facilitate that conversation rather than pretend it doesn't exist. Because there's just so much we can't explain. As clever as human beings are, there's a lot going on that we don't have access to. So why not look and share experiences and ideas and faith?

The idea and practice of religion can often be a dividing topic, particularly here in the U.S. where you have the so-called "religious right" and dedicated faith communities heavily involved in politics as well as a rising atheist population. Seeing how your music discusses religion so openly, how have fans been reacting to your music and your approach to religion? Are fans accepting of the religious themes in your music? Are you seeing any backlash or negative reactions?

Maddix: I think for people that love dance music, house music, electronic music, there's a real acceptance of this style of music and the message has been there for a long time, so there's almost no problem there ... These are songs that are explicitly about faith and gods and the Bible that maybe people aren't even aware of, but they accept them because they move them in some way. When you encourage conversation about the meaning behind songs or the message behind songs, people are quite open to it. That's how I feel about it, and that's what I found most dance music fans have felt.

We actually do have a lot more religious followers or Christian followers, I think, especially since lockdown when we started doing our a cappella videos. We did a cover of "Optimistic" by [vocal group] Sounds Of Blackness, and I think that resonated with people at a time where they just needed to feel optimistic … So I think it just brought more people into the space.

If you go through our followers on Instagram, it's really surprising. Some of [their handles] are like "prayedup97" and someone else might be "danceallnight81." And they're all there, they're all in the same room. And that is essentially what House Gospel Choir is. It's us with all of our different beliefs, all of our own issues, all of our own struggles—being in the same room. I think that's what is reflected in our fan base.

There's definitely been some questions from our more religious followers, once or twice, about the length of our skirts and such and such. But I don't think it's possible to rave in a long skirt, personally. [Laughs.]

I'm glad you brought up the composition of the group itself. I read that it's composed of more than 150 members from all religions, all backgrounds, all ethnicities. Tell me why that was a deliberate choice.

Maddix: We live in London, man. I think it's similar to New York. If you are able to share what you have with the biggest audience possible, it's just good. I think because we came at it [from] an angle from two things: singing, which anyone of any race of any religious belief can do; and raving and being together. I think those two things are real good levelers or nice entry points for a lot of people.

Being in London, having such a diverse population, it just happened naturally … Our members are from all over the U.K., actually. There [are] Scottish people in there, there [are] people from outside of London. In the same way that New York has that kind of migratory aspect to it—someone might not have family members in that town or that city—London's a similar thing. I think it also brings together people that want to belong somewhere ... It's just a home for anyone that wants that experience.

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Leon: It provides like a second family, like you said, because there are a lot of people from outside of London ... To be able to come together in a safe space where you can just be yourself—even from personal experience, from a mental health perspective, it really helps being together with like-minded people that just want the same thing and to just let your hair down ...

But no matter what, everyone's got each others' backs ... I think we're all just aiming for the same thing, so [we're] all on the same page. Essentially, Nat is the driving force behind this movement. So it is her final word, and everyone respects that. Everyone just wants to work for the greater good and provide a space to fully be yourself [with] no judgment at all.

What is House Gospel Choir's mission statement? What is your ultimate goal for the group?

Maddix: My main thing was always to remind people that we are one. It's my mantra. I've noticed that so many people are using it now ... So many people are waking up to the idea that there's more that unites us than separates us. All these things that are supposed to make us so different, when you really get down to it and sit in a room or share space with people that feel very different to you, you realize there's not a lot of difference between who you are as human beings.

That is the message at the top and the end of our live show. That's how we always wanted people to leave feeling. I think during the pandemic, that's expanded a little bit more as well. It's about joy and it's about finding those moments and pockets to enjoy life and really witness and experience beautiful moments and beautiful things with anyone that's near you. It's just to remind people that joy is still required. With everything going on, just remember that you can feel two things at once. You can be sad and still find something joyful in your day or in your week. And singing is a good way to feel joyful.

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Lin-Manuel Miranda (L) and host/creator Hrishikesh Hirway (R) in "Song Exploder"

Lin-Manuel Miranda (L) and host/creator Hrishikesh Hirway (R) in "Song Exploder"

Photo: Eric Veras/Netflix

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Beat By Beat: How "Song Exploder" Unlocks The Intimacy Of Music And Creativity

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Based on the popular podcast, the newly launched Netflix series dissects classics and current hits one layer at a time, while host and creator Hrishikesh Hirway finds the human connection behind it all
John Ochoa
GRAMMYs
Oct 20, 2020 - 4:54 pm

Most people know "Song Exploder" as the popular podcast giving die-hard music fans a deep, inside look into the sonic mechanics behind their favorite tracks. A whole new class of music-heads now knows "Song Exploder" as the new Netflix series bringing the creativity behind music to the digital screen.

Originally launched as a podcast in 2014, "Song Exploder" dissects classic and current fan-favorite songs, with guest artists breaking down each individual track and element in detail to paint an intimate audio portrait of their art. The podcast, which has accumulated more than 60 million streams and downloads over the years and has hosted guests like U2, Selena Gomez, Björk, Fleetwood Mac, Solange and many others, now breathes new life as a Netflix docuseries. 

Introduced on the streaming platform at the beginning of October, "Song Exploder" adds an even deeper layer of storytelling and personal insight to the songs being deconstructed beat by beat. The show's inaugural four-episode run features Alicia Keys ("3 Hour Drive"), Lin-Manuel Miranda ("Wait For It" from "Hamilton"), R.E.M. ("Losing My Religion") and Ty Dolla $ign ("LA"). (Last week [Oct. 15], Netflix unveiled its next slate of guests for the show's second season, set to debut Dec. 15: Dua Lipa, The Killers, Nine Inch Nails and Natalia Lafourcade.

Whether in visual or podcast format, the core of "Song Exploder" remains the same: "an intimate portrait of an artist telling the story of how their artistic mind worked through creating one of their songs," host and creator Hrishikesh Hirway tells GRAMMY.com.

GRAMMY.com chatted with Hrishikesh Hirway about the human connection behind his new "Song Exploder" Netflix series and how he hopes the show will inspire others to create their own art.

You have an endless supply of songs from which to choose for any given "Song Exploder" episode, podcast and show. What needs to stand out in a song in order for you to develop it for "Song Exploder"?

The first step in the process is really identifying the artists before even getting to the song, because, frankly, I don't know necessarily which songs might have the best stories. The most famous songs don't necessarily have the most interesting stories, and the people who know that better than anyone are the people who made the songs.

But what I can try and determine is which artists seem really interesting and thoughtful, good storytellers, and who are also beloved by a lot of people. That's kind of where I start. And once I can get an artist onboard to talk about a song in this way, then I start the process of trying to narrow down which song it's going to be with them.

I feel like I don't know what the story [of the song] is all the time. There are a lot of songs that haven't necessarily been delved into, and frankly, I'm always interested in something like that ... where the backstory [of a song] hasn't been canonized and "Song Exploder" can be a place to tell it for the first time. So I really am relying on input from the artists ... The question that I ask them, frankly, is: Which of your songs do you feel the most emotional attachment to?

Ultimately, the most interesting stories, I think, when it comes to making songs or really making any kind of art, are about people and their feelings and the things that inspire them to make something at all. Even though the show is about music, it's also a portrait of each of these artists. In order to tell you something insightful, especially for it to be something that could be interesting to people who aren't people who make music themselves and also aren't necessarily even familiar with the artist or the song, it has to be something that connects to something in the human experience that feels significant.

I always try to make "Song Exploder" a show that reflected a broad range of genres and artists and backgrounds. So there's kind of almost a guarantee that you couldn't just get people hooked on the show based on who the artists were and what the songs were; I want everybody to watch every episode and listen to every episode of the podcast because I think that it's a worthwhile conversation to have. I think the creative process is something that's really fascinating in and of itself. It's an example of how people react to their own experience, to actually decide to make something based on their ideas, what they lived through, what they love ... The thing that I'm actually most interested in is that kind of emotional experience: the emotional attachment to the act of creating a piece of music.

Michael Stipe of R.E.M. in "Song Exploder"

Michael Stipe of R.E.M. in "Song Exploder" | Photo: Courtesy of Netflix/Netflix

There's a moment in the R.E.M. episode where frontman Michael Stipe gets almost emotional listening to his own voice on the band's classic, "Losing My Religion," and hearing the song elements broken down and presented to him in such an intimate manner, even after so many years since the song's release. How do you go about getting artists to open up to you and dive into their art so deeply?

I think one thing that helps is that I'm not really approaching [the interview process] head-on, certainly not right away. The questions don't start off front and center in like an emotionally investigative way. I think I have to earn their trust first, and part of that is from talking about the mechanics of the process first. That's the entry point in all these conversations. One of the reasons why having the [song's] stems is important, not just in terms of letting the listeners know what's going on in the song, but in terms of being able to facilitate that conversation with the artist.

Of all of the questions, the hardest one to answer is probably, "Why?" "Why did you decide to make the song this way? Why did you write this lyric? Why did you choose this chord progression?" That's the hardest [question], but it's also the one that I'm most interested in. But it's a little easier to start off with, first of all, "What?" "What are we listening to?" And then to ask them, "OK, how did you make it? And when did you make it?" All those basic factual questions are a way to just let them and me submerge ourselves into the memories of making that song.

Once they're there and able to relive some of the experience of it by hearing the actual evidence of the stuff that they did on that day—hearing their voice, hearing the instrument, hearing the actual track that they recorded around that time—it's a lot easier to ask them to then dig a few layers deeper and ask what was going on in their lives and how that might've fed into some of those creative decisions.

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You're now juggling the show and the podcast. How do you decide what songs go on the podcast format and what goes in video format?

Well, the podcast is a lot of work for a podcast, but that means that I'm still able to turn around an episode in a few weeks, whereas the TV show takes a much longer time to put together. There are just so many more components to it, and it's so much more work.

Part of the pitch for doing the television show is that I was trying to ask these artists to take a leap of faith, [like,] "This is something that's going to take a while to make, so you can't tie it to your promotional calendar, necessarily. I can't guarantee that it'll come out on such and such date to coincide with your single release or something like that." It was really more like, "Would you like to participate in this thing where there'll be this really meticulously crafted mini-documentary about this work that you did, and it's sort of evergreen."

That's a different pitch than with the podcast. Although with the podcast, I say all those things, too. I say it's evergreen and it's always better when it's not necessarily tied to your release schedule and more like when people have had a chance to live with the song a little bit. But one of the advantages of the podcast is it can be a little more nimble because it's a little easier to put together.

So this is a long way of saying that a lot of times that question is answered by the artists themselves or their publicists or managers, who are looking for a very specific outcome or timing, or they have something in mind, and that could be a matter of scale. It really depends on the circumstances of the artist and what works for them.

Fans who've been following the podcast for a while will find a totally different experience when they come to the show. There are two types of storytelling when I hear "Song Exploder," the podcast, and when I watch "Song Exploder," the docuseries. The podcast is very audio-heavy: You get to really hear all of the isolated bits and pieces of the song. The show has a lot more historical and cultural context, sort of like a mini-documentary for a song, and you also hear from a lot more voices beyond just the recording artist. Beyond the visual element, what do you gain in terms of storytelling through the show?

I think one of the things that you mentioned is absolutely key to the TV show, which is that often on the podcast, it's just a single voice or maybe two voices together … But with the TV show, because the timeline was so different, there was a chance to stop and say, "OK, who do we really want? Who are all the voices that are involved in the creation of the song?" Maybe not just the artist, but also the collaborators that were essential to making the song. 

Having that kind of breadth and depth, it isn't always afforded to the shorter turnaround time and the scale of the podcast. But here, to really immerse the audience and give a really full picture of what the song was, having those other voices in there was really important. For [the] Alicia Keys episode [about the song "3 Hour Drive,"] we traveled to London to film with [the song's guest vocalist and co-writer/co-producer] Sampha and the [song's] co-writer/co-producer Jimmy Napes because we knew that they were going to only expand and flesh out the story.

I think a part of it is also a matter of craft, too. When you're working in audio, you're kind of only working in one dimension, which is time. You're just relying on one sense, hearing, and you're just basing everything on how long things take; the rhythm comes from just that one sense. But with TV, you have to also give a rhythm and complexity visually, too. You can't just transliterate the podcast into a TV format, where it's just one person talking, mixed with the isolated stems, because it wouldn't work; it would get very boring very quickly. So in order to have that kind of texture and nuance, we wanted to involve all those different people and try and give a little bit bigger of a picture than maybe what comes out in the podcast.

Do you see the podcast and the show as separate entities or related in the same family? Do you need to engage with both formats to fully appreciate or understand what "Song Exploder" is trying to do?

Oh, I don't think you have to engage with both. Of course, I would love it if people did, just because they're both things that I've put a lot of work into, and you want people to enjoy the stuff that you've worked on. This is not a great analogy, but I think it's sort of like reading a book or watching a movie that's been adapted of that book. I don't think you need to read the book to enjoy the movie, and vice versa, you don't need to have seen the movie to have full enjoyment of the book. But maybe you'll get something out of the experience of taking both in. Maybe it changes the way you feel about both.

This is, of course, a little bit different, because it's not even the same story that's being told. It's really just taking the core concept, which is an intimate portrait of an artist telling the story of how their artistic mind worked through creating one of their songs, and taking that concept and expressing it in these two different media. So it's much looser even than something like an adaptation of a book to a movie.

What artist or what song is your holy grail for the podcast or the show or both?

I don't have one holy grail—I think I probably have about a thousand. Anytime I start listening to music, I start wondering about it. That's not new since I started "Song Exploder"; it's the other way around. That's always been the way I listen to music. When I fall in love with a song, I want to hear it from the inside out. I want to hear what the individual tracks, what the individual stems sound like. I want to know what the ideas were that inspired all of these things that I'm falling in love with. "Song Exploder" was just a way of me being able to actually make that happen for myself. So anytime I'm listening to music and I hear something great, you could put it on the list.

Ty Dolla $ign in "Song Exploder"

Ty Dolla $ign in "Song Exploder" | Photo: Courtesy of Netflix/Netflix

What is your ultimate goal with "Song Exploder"?

I wish people would either watch the show or listen to the podcast and come away with a feeling that they want to make something themselves. Part of my aim with the show is to democratize the act of creation a little bit. I think it's easy to look at very successful artists or very successful songs or any kind of art in any format, where it has reached a certain level of success, and think that there's some uncrossable boundary for everyday people that keeps them from making something as great as those songs …

I think the best feeling that I always get from finishing working on an episode is something akin to that. That like, I just want to go make something, and it doesn't just have to be music. I think that anybody who is interested in making anything at all, to get something from the show, just the idea of going from nothing but an idea and following that all the way through to a finished piece of art, I hope that might be inspiring to everyone.

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