Life on Planets

Life On Planets

Photo: Courtesy of artist

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Life On Planets Talks Astrology, Inclusivity On The Dancefloor & Why We Have To Be Like Martin Luther King Jr.

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I've always felt comfortable [speaking] on the mic and [raising] people up and [building] that energy and [trying] to transmute it into something that can go beyond just that moment," the singer said
Ana Monroy Yglesias
GRAMMYs
Jan 18, 2021 - 6:02 am

Baltimore-bred singer, guitarist and producer Phill Celeste, a.k.a. Life on Planets, is an Aries—the fire sign represented by the ram. Aries is known for taking charge and getting things done, and that's exactly his MO. "I'm always trying to keep it flowing, keep going, keep pushing ahead. I guess that's gotten us here," he told GRAMMY.com from Miami, where he is living for the next few months with his girlfriend.

Celeste's music—a sweet blend of house, funk, R&B, and soul, bolstered by his rich, deep vocals—embodies movement. His catalog easily shifts between sunny daytime vibes and sweaty dancefloors. Yet, his joyful music is made not just with the intention of getting people grooving, but—in the vein of soul greats like Al Green, Isaac Hayes and Marvin Gaye—with thought and feeling in his lyrics that celebrate love, friendship and the possibility of a brighter future.

"Everybody always comes together to unite under the music. So, I feel like [the dancefloor's] always been a powerful place to spread messages," he said. "I've always felt comfortable [speaking] on the mic and [raising] people up and [building] that energy and [trying] to transmute it into something that can go beyond just that moment." 

The inspiring artist recently spoke to GRAMMY.com about his love of astrology and using music as a catalyst for social change. He also talks the inspiration and creative journey behind his latest single "Grateful," how he covered Afro disco classic "Only You," and more.

I really want to know where the name Life on Planets came from.

Back when I first started this project, I was working for a producer who goes by Discoogie. I guess he doesn't make music anymore, but I was busking and making these house tracks with him. I would ask him, "What's your astrology? When were you born? What's your moon sign?" All that stuff and eventually he was like, "Yo, we should call this project Life on Planets because you're so into astrology."

He would always give people names and I was like, "All right, I'll take it. Life on Planets." I guess people think it's all about aliens and space, and it is. That's half of it, but I'm really into astrology, and I like to think of ideas and places and things as planets that we orbit around.

What sign are you and how do you feel it affects your art?

I'm an Aries. I am very, how do I say? I want to say the good things because when you say Aries, people are always [look sideways at you], like, "Ohhh. Okay." And I'm a Leo moon and Leo ascendant. They say these placements can lead to performer, exhibitionist, outgoing personalities.

I feel like, as the [Aires] ram, an embodiment of this energy of pushing through things and moving forward. I tend to be very, "How can I get this done as fast as possible, as easy as possible?" Whether it's working on an idea and bringing a collaborator in, I'm always trying to keep it flowing, keep going, keep pushing ahead. I guess that's gotten us here.

Read: Justin Michael Williams Talks "I Am Enough," Teaching Kids Meditation & Pivoting Towards His Truth

This would be cool if it was an interview just about astrology, but we should also talk about music. You have a few tracks coming out on Studio 54 Records and I would love if you could take us through the creative process and the inspiration for one of them: "Grateful."

 "Grateful" I wrote when I was living in New York. To give some background, I moved to New York from Baltimore in August 2019 and was trying to figure things out and get into the scene there, start meeting people. I wrote "Grateful" shortly after I went to a show at Elsewhere [in Brooklyn] and the big headliner was The Knocks. We were walking around and hanging out and getting squished. I was just feeling really ugh [about the packed crowd] and then The Knocks started playing all this throwback stuff, like Foster the People and MGMT. It was super high school. I was like, "Oh snap," and everybody was blissed out. I was thinking, "Ah, man. I want to make something that can give that old school vibe."

I used to listen to Daft Punk and MGMT and all this cool electronic pop and I was like, "Give me some of that vibe." Over the course of the next couple of weeks, I started recording "Grateful" and trying to do some more weird effected stuff and some electronic pop-influenced stuff. The lyrics are about my girlfriend. Over the course of our relationship, I would always think, "What if that one moment never happened? Would things still have turned out the same if I hadn't offered to help her with her bags? Would we have still connected?" Because it just feels so important and this one moment led to this and then now my life is completely different.

The song is basically half about peering into the alternate dimension, looking at those moments as if I was Marty McFly or something, and the other half is appreciating how special the relationship is.

I love that backstory. I'm also curious about the technical side of the different beats and approaches you used to make "Grateful."

Sometimes I feel self-conscious about this influence, but I'm a big fan of Justin Timberlake and what he did with Timbaland and Pharrell. All of that stuff, you throw it on, I just start singing and dancing. I did a lot of vocal percussion on both this track and "Everyday." I was doing a lot of prrr chhh prrr, in the beginning, you can hear it, and then I threw that through a bunch of effects and delay and phasers and stuff to try to make it sound like this texture or this groove that you just can't always capture in a sample.

And then I've got my guitar going, just trying to hold down a little steady thing. It was always my idea to combine psychedelic guitar with house sounds and R&B influences for the vocals. For the guitar stuff, sometimes I like to run it through an effects chain where I almost make it sound like a synth. I did it on this one a little bit in the pre-chorus, where it slowly ramps up. And I'm trying to take a little bit of CHIC, Nile Rodgers, always a little bit of that chicken pickin' going throughout. 

So, there's that and then the drums. I feel like I always try to take a really soft kick. I love those hip-hop kicks that KAYTRANADA likes to throw around. On this track, I was trying to take a soft kick, but then boost it. There's some side-chaining going on, especially with the guitars so that that kick really stands out and punches. I took some trap drums and some 909s and 808s and layered them.

And there's that bass. That's also along that KAYTRA hip-hop, trap sound. I love to take 808s and put them into this dance music world. In the chorus, there's a really heavy piano sample that I found through Arturia, like the Mini V, and so I layered that and it just sounds like bam, baa, baaa. It's like "Alright, here we go!" When I wanted to take it to the next level with textures and the vibe, I went to Splice because everybody's on there. I was like, "Okay. Let me finally join the hive." I got some weird little loops. There was a clock ticking and I pitched it down and tucked it in.

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One of the other songs I want to talk about is "Only You," one of your many 2020 releases. It's so dope how you flip the Steve Monite Afro disco classic. Can you talk about your approach to that track and, again, some of the different elements that you brought into it?

I was cleaning the house or something, and had Spotify radio going and I heard [Steve Monite's] "Only You" and I was like, "Holy f***. What record is this from? Who is this?" I started listening to that boogie and Lagos [compilation album the track is on] all the time. I started hearing it out. I would hear it at every afterparty, like Sunrise Vibes, and I was like, "Okay. This is so hot."

Then I got inspired by dvsn. I was watching the highlights from Coachella, and I was like, "Holy sh*t." [Daniel Daley] starts singing Usher, riffing, and then they go into this Usher song. I was like, "Oh, it is so cool. I need to do more covers. I need to do more singalongs." Usually, I play for an hour and it's all my stuff and it's fun, but people can't always sing along. 

I was like, "'Only You' will be perfect because ... everybody vibes with this song," and I hadn't heard a 1:00 a.m. version—not that you can only play my version then. But I wanted to have one for 1:00 a.m. at my set at the club because the original is more for sunrise or sunset. It's chilled out.

I was in Barcelona [for a show], trying to figure out what I wanted to do with this "Only You" thing because I had a couple hours and I didn't have my flash drive. I was like, "Alright. Let me just see what I can make with what I have here." I started throwing together some 808s and trying to make just some really cool little beats with that tap, tap, tap [rhythm in the original]. I was really trying everything in the box because I didn't even have my interface or a way to really record anything.

So, I arranged it all and then sung over it through my computer microphone and mimicked the guitar. Then I sent it to my homeboy Mateyo, who DJs for me when we play bigger shows, so I can be out front, jumping around. He also does sound engineering and mixing and mastering. I'm like, "Bro, what do you think of this? Can we work with it? Let's get in the studio and record this proper." 

I don't think we even really did anything to it from that initial session. He just mixed it really well and we came to the studio. I recorded my vocals and an actual guitar, but for the most part it stayed the same. That was before I had Splice, so on YouTube or Freesound.com I found a couple of [samples of] fire alarms, horses galloping and sprinklers. There are some sounds like that for the transitions at the beginning. And then of course, there's the worst alarm [sound], your alarm clock when you wake up. I was like "How can I take these elements and then make them percussive?"

With a lot of the music that you put out this year, you've donated part of the proceeds to Black Lives Matter, ACLU and other organizations. How you see dance music and more generally being an artist as part of the catalyst for social change and racial justice?

Every time I go [to a house music party,] there are always so many different people from different backgrounds. You've got people like the OGs who have been in the scene watching it grow and do it for years and then you've got young kids, you've got DJs, you got dancers. It's like everybody always comes together to unite under the music. So, I feel like it's always been a powerful place to spread messages and somewhere that I've always felt comfortable [speaking] on the mic and [raising] people up and [building] that energy and [trying] to transmute it into something that can go beyond just that moment.

I feel like a lot of the DJs and producers I've worked with are super woke and always staying up on the issues and trying to make way and to work for change. I see plenty of other guys trying to make a stand and do what they can. This whole [donation] thing happened organically from a couple of conversations with Soul Clap. We started saying, "Yo, what can we do to still put this music out there, but to make it something, make it help?"

Since that conversation, [there's] just been more conversations with Kitsune where we're like, "We're donating X amount to Black Lives Matter. What can we do?" We picked Campaign Zero because that's a little more targeted with Kitsune ... I think we've always paid respects to those who have come before and the dance floor has always been a safer space—with P.L.U.R. [or, peace, love unity respect]—for trans folks and for gay people, for everybody just to come together and give it up to the ether.

Related: Jayda G Talks New EP, Promoting Diversity In Dance Music & Sharing Joy

What do you see as an essential part of bringing the dance music industry back to its inclusive and radical roots?

It's an interesting question because there's only so much I can do as an artist of color and people like me can do. I feel like it's really on the gatekeepers in every avenue to wake up, and it's my job to help them wake up and pass me the key. I was talking to Seth Troxler about this on this "Schmoozing and the Soul Clap" weekly talk show. We were saying it comes down to more promoters waking up and trying to add more artists of color, and of every background to their roster, to fill in the paint by numbers. It comes down to PR companies trying to get more press, writers wanting to write about and to get to know artists of color.

I think it's definitely on us to keep making our voices heard, to keep making art and to keep expressing ourselves, and to keep fighting for change, but I think the music scene, as we know, is dominated by white people that are just booking their friends or hooking up homies or whatever. And so, they have to turn around and say, "Oh, I need to make some new homies," and really try to do their part. Hopefully.

I mean, I've seen it happen. Our interaction here. Working with Infamous PR, they reached out to me and said, "Hey, we want to help and do our part and make more Black artists and more artists of color visible. That's what we've done for other artists." And so, they want to really take the time to support. A guy like me, that's just been making music and touring and trying to scrape by as an artist, doesn't necessarily have the funds to pay these crazy premiums for marketing. I've been fortunate enough to have all that come into my circle because more and more people are waking up to it. I hope it keeps happening. We'll keep waking up and we can all get to a level where things are a little more equal.

Related: George Floyd, Breonna Taylor And Elijah McClain Are Drifting From The National Discourse—These Musicians Remind Us To "Say Their Names"

In 2020, we experienced a much-needed reckoning with systemic racism in America and there's been a lot of really important conversations that have come out from it. How do you think we can keep the conversations and activism going, especially when things seem to get better, back to "normal," or how so often the cycles go?

I think we've seen it happen already. I don't hear anybody talking about Breonna Taylor. Obviously, life is going to return to some normal and we've all been cooped up, and people need to have their mimosas or their dance parties. I've been seeing all these crazy pictures of people going out here in Miami and they don't care at all, but I just think for those of us that haven't forgotten and that have to keep playing this game, I've had to keep posting stuff on social media and to just keep checking in, keep making sure that our message is there. I do think that there has to also be some sort of shift a little bit in the way we approach these things.

I was actually talking to some homies the other night. We just got really deep on all of this and I forget who said it, but you have to lead with love, right? And there are so many people that are just like, "Ah, I don't want to be a downer," or, "All lives matter," or, "You can't defund the police," and I feel we can't just isolate them. The more we let them be in their vacuum chamber, the more toxic that community is going to become. So, we have to be bigger. We have to be like Gandhi, like Martin Luther King, Jr. and not worry about the blows we might receive and approach the other side with love and try to educate them.

There's got to be a way to talk their language and get them to open their eyes and so, I think we need to almost study the psychology of the naysayer and try to meet them on their ground or something. Otherwise, there's going to be this division forever, and we need to come together in order to tackle these bigger problems.

I did phone banking with voters in Georgia and the organizers talk a lot about meeting people where they're at and how you don't have to have the same views as someone to be able to relate to them as a human. And it's not about proving them wrong, but offering a different perspective or offering some realness to the lies that they've been consuming.

It's not a sprint, right? It's a marathon and so, we don't have to immediately change or transform anybody in one conversation. That's impossible. You just have to keep having those little conversations and try to just make those little steps forward.

With music it's an easy way to capture someone. They hear that beat, they hear that bang, and then you slide in a little message. They might be affected on some level and take that message and take it to heart and impart that onto someone else. That's the hope at least.

Record Store Recs: Estereomance Are All In Their Feels With Vinyl From El Paso, Los Angeles & Mexico City

The Knocks in 2020

The Knocks

Photo: Joe Perri

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Record Store Recs: The Knocks Reveal The Grooviest Shops In Brooklyn And Online

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The beloved New York electro duo The Knocks take us to their favorite vinyl stores in the Big Apple and on the World Wide Web
Ana Monroy Yglesias
GRAMMYs
Feb 11, 2021 - 1:36 pm

With the unprecedented global disruption of COVID-19, it's important to support the music community however we can. With Record Store Recs, GRAMMY.com checks in with vinyl-loving artists to learn more about their favorite record stores and the gems they've found there so you can find some new favorite artists and shops.

New York-based electro-pop duo The Knocks–consisting of Ben "B-Roc" Ruttner and James "JPatt" Patterson—have made a name for themselves with their upbeat bops and energetic live shows. Their last album, 2018's New York Narcotic, is a kinetic tribute to the city they love and that loves them back. On Feb. 5, after a year without concerts, Ruttner released his vibey debut solo album, Holiday87 (which is also his solo project's name).

While New York may have finally caught up on sleep in 2020, the pulse of the city—its music—never really stopped. For the latest Record Store Recs, Patterson shares the act's favorite vinyl hot spots and what's on their vinyl wishlist.

What are three to five record stores you love?

Second Hand Records in Brooklyn, New York

Superior Elevation Records in Brooklyn

Human Head Records in Brooklyn

Discogs (online)

Juno Records (online)

The Last: Record Store Recs: Producer Bongo ByTheWay Shares The Music Of His Mind

The Knocks' Ben Ruttner at a record store

The Knocks' Ben Ruttner

Why do you love these shops? And what kind of goodies have you found there?

Second Hand, Superior and Human Head are all run by great DJs and have well-curated selections. They also happen to be good friends, and we love supporting the community. We have found some great older house records and rare disco cuts there.

For at least one of your favorite shops, share a recent record or two you bought there and what you love about the record/artist.

We haven't been doing as much analog digging due to COVID restrictions and basically quarantining for a year with no gigs. We have, however, purchased a few jams online, one of which we've been obsessed with by a relatively obscure artist named Jesse Henderson. It's called "I Did It Again" [1977, Lasso Records].

The Knocks go vinyl hunting

What's an upcoming/recent release or two you have your eyes on picking up and why?

There's an Al Kent release that's coming out [on March 8 on Million Dollar Disco] called "The Loneliest One" that sounds like an absolute melter. It's definitely on our Juno wish list. There's also a Dimitri from Paris edit pack on the way. We are always excited about his stuff because it's usually heat.

Another Record Store Recs: Salt Cathedral Talk Favorite Brooklyn Indie Shops & How To Support Artists Of Color

How would you describe your record collection in a few words?

Funky house, disco and edits mostly—for getting the party started.

In your opinion, what can music fans do to better support Black artists and businesses?

I think real fans are already good about showing support by purchasing/streaming/sharing our music, but I think the industry could do better about supporting Black artists and artists in general by giving us bigger cuts of money being made off the music we create.

Life On Planets Talks Astrology, Inclusivity On The Dancefloor & Why We Have To Be Like Martin Luther King Jr.

Baauer smiling in his at-home studio in Brooklyn

Baauer

Photo: Kylie Hoffman

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Meet The First-Time GRAMMY Nominee: Baauer Talks 'PLANET'S MAD,' Daft Punk & Shaking The "Harlem Shake"

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"To me, it's such a beautiful validation. It's like, 'Check this out—I made this album and boom, now I'm nominated for a GRAMMY,'" Baauer tells GRAMMY.com of his nomination
Ana Monroy Yglesias
GRAMMYs
Feb 24, 2021 - 9:05 am

It's been eight years since Brooklyn-based DJ/producer Baauer found viral fame with his bouncy debut single, "Harlem Shake," released on Diplo's Mad Decent label in 2012. He's followed up with numerous singles and two full-length albums, 2016's Aa and 2020's GRAMMY-nominated PLANET'S MAD.

Yet, as he explains, it's been hard to get past being the "'Harlem Shake' guy."

"To me, it's such a beautiful validation," Baauer, born Harrison Rodrigues, tells GRAMMY.com about PLANET'S MAD's recent nomination for Best Dance/Electronic Album. "It's like, 'Check this out, I made this album and boom, now I'm nominated for a GRAMMY.'"

He also takes us into the fantastical musical and visual world he created for the GRAMMY-nominated project, how Brooklyn influences his sound and his lifelong love of Daft Punk (this interview was conducted before their breakup was announced).

First of all, congrats on your first GRAMMY nomination. How did you find out and what was your reaction?

Some people started texting me, "Congrats!" and I had no idea what was going on. I was like, "Oh wait, something's happening." I asked somebody who texted me, 'What are you talking about?' And they're like, "Oh, the GRAMMY nomination." It was amazing. I freaked out. I was jumping up and down, like, "Woooo!" It was one of those rare moments of pure joy.

That's awesome. And yeah, in a year that felt like a lot of sh*t, I'm sure it has an extra contrast.

Yeah, absolutely. After such a year, and a year putting so much work into the album, and at times feeling like, "Oh man, is anyone even going to listen to this? Or is this just going to fall on deaf ears?" and sometimes feeling a little bit down about the circumstances, it was just very amazing, fantastic—a validation of all that hard work.

Read: Meet The First-Time GRAMMY Nominee: Arca Is Expanding Latin Music On Her Terms With Electronic Album ‘KiCK i’

What does it mean to you to be nominated for Best Dance/Electronic Album?

Oh, it means so much. It means the world. I've had a journey where I got my main exposure from the meme moment of "Harlem Shake." So I'm always, always working within the context of, "Oh, this is the 'Harlem Shake' guy." I've accepted it. And I'm grateful for it, but it's also something I'm constantly trying to move past and shake, you know what I mean?

How do you feel that your sound and approach to making music has shifted since releasing "Harlem Shake" in 2012, especially being that it was the first single you ever put out?

I feel good that I've never tried to cash in again after that happened. I had the chance to be like, "Okay, let's try to do 'Harlem Shake Two.'" And I just felt like, "Nah, don't do that. Keep trying new stuff, keep experimenting." And a lot of the things didn't work, a lot of experiments didn't work, but I'm proud that I, despite that, just kept trying to do different, new things.

And this album was absolutely one of those too. It's an experiment; it's kind of a risk. And this nomination is just an amazing lesson of a risk that absolutely paid off. It's good to know that sometimes if you roll the dice, you can get a reward.

I want to dive into the album a bit more. Can you take us into the vision behind PLANET'S MAD?

Absolutely. Basically, I wanted to make a new album and create a world for it, almost like making a movie. And so instead of just having a collection of 12 electronic tracks, I used this opportunity to create a world. And that was the basic inspiration for it. From there, it was just a matter of imagining this world and making characters. [Plus], going back to movies and albums that I took in when I was discovering music, and trying to recreate that. Like Daft Punk, Prodigy, The Avalanches and Fatboy Slim—all the albums that sort of created a universe.

Related: 'Tron: Legacy' At 10: How Daft Punk Built An Enduring Soundtrack

Is the movie something that you were thinking about while making the album, or is it something you decided to do after?

I definitely wanted some visual elements from the get-go. But whether or not it was going to be a full movie for the whole thing, I didn't have that in mind until I realized that that was possible a little later on. But visuals are definitely important. For a minute, I was thinking to maybe do a video game too. But that's something that, along the way, turned out to not be possible.

I found these awesome animators, Actual Objects. They were able to create these visuals inside of a video game engine, and they were able to do it so quickly that I realized we could actually make a full little movie here. So, yeah, it was in meeting these animators that that plan and the whole movie came about.

So, the video game didn't happen, but it led to the movie, which is cool.

Yeah, exactly. And it's kind of cool, because, since they built the whole world inside the video game engine, it is actually playable as a game. So that's something that maybe, who knows, down the line, we could still do. This stuff is pretty alien to me, but, as I understand it, with a click of a button, it could become a video game. It's something that's possible.

How did the collaborative process between you and the animators and anyone else involved in the movie go? How did you work with them to create the world in your mind?

I started off with a pretty general storyline. I worked with my brother, who is a writer trying to make it out in Los Angeles right now. He's a great writer, and he's very good at understanding basic story structure. I gave him some movie influences. A big one was The Fifth Element, which has been one of my absolute favorite movies for so long. So, I started off making a basic framework with him.

And I knew I wanted the little alien creature because I love character design. I'm so into Jim Henson, "Sesame Street" and the Muppets. From there, we developed the story. We knew it was going to be about a planet that came into Earth's atmosphere and people on Earth had a reaction to it. They were scared at first, then discovered it was peaceful and everyone became friends.

The story happened bit by bit. And I think, honestly, that means that there are some holes in it. But from what I can tell, that's how it goes sometimes with telling a story, whether it's in a movie or in a show or whatever. You build it as you go, and sometimes there are little holes in it. But sometimes, it doesn't matter, because you're so enraptured in the world that's created.

And you also released a Blu-ray DVD version of the movie with music video extras, which feels very throwback. What was the inspiration to release a physical version of it?

It was Dominic, who runs LuckyMe, the label [I'm on]. We've done a bunch of really cool videos in the past, and for one reason or another, maybe they didn't all get the big exposure [we wanted]. So he had the idea to compile them for this special edition thing. Making it a Blu-ray is kind of throwback, huh? But it's a pretty recent throwback—Blu-rays aren't from that long ago, but I don't have a Blu-ray player. But yeah, it's a cool physical item to have. It's a little look back and a way to have everything in one space.

Did you have any music DVDs growing up? I have a couple I had that I'm thinking of.

Yeah. I'm curious, which ones did you have?!

In sixth grade, I was really obsessed with Sugar Ray. Specifically, Mark McGrath. It was their Australian tour DVD and I watched it endlessly.

Wow. That's one of my favorite things [to learn about people]. You have that thing, like that DVD, that you watch over and over and over again.

The big one for me was Daft Punk's Interstella 5555. You know, they did like a whole anime film that goes along with their album Discovery, which of course is a huge influence of mine. That's a big one that I had and loved. I'm trying to think if I had any more, like, live ones. I'm not sure if I had any live DVDs. I definitely wanted some.

There are so many different sounds and textures on the album. So, I want to look at one song specifically that I really liked, "Pizzawala." Can you break down the different elements on that track?

It all started with a sample that came from a—speaking of old, now obsolete media—a sample CD. There were these CDs in the '90s and 2000s that had all kinds of samples on it—little vocal chops or drums or whatever. People would use them the way now you download a [sample] pack. On the CD is this guy singing a Middle Eastern-sounding chant. The song was all based around that vocal chant, which was actually also used in a Prodigy song. I only discovered that kind of recently, which is kind of crazy.

Around it, I built these drums and tried to use all kinds of different percussion—any cool percussion that sounded different or interesting to me. And the groove was definitely inspired by Timbaland, who's probably my favorite producer ever. I don't even know how to describe it, but [I created] a bouncy percussion based around this sort of chant sample.

And then around that, I built this melody of bells—[which are] still percussion, but more melodic percussion, like bells and marimbas. And I also put in vocals from an amazing writer. I recorded her on it like a year before, doing ad-libs and stuff. I don't even really know what she's saying. So yeah, an old sample, vocals I recorded and then a bunch of different, crazy percussions I found from all over the internet.

That's really cool. I want to find these boxes of sample CDs.

Yeah. I mean, honestly, it's not the coolest, but I just found it on YouTube. It was called, like, "old sample CDs." Even though it's from a CD, I still found it on the internet.

So when you first used the sample, you didn't realize that Prodigy had also used it?

Yeah. A friend of mine texted me after like, "Hey, did you sample Prodigy for that?" I looked up the song and it was using the same sample. I was like, "Oh my God." It's perfectly possible that they also got it from the same CD. Or maybe somewhere else. It's just a really old sample that's been used a bunch of times.

You've talked a bit about some of your inspirations both visually and musically, but was there an artist that made you want to get into DJing and producing yourself?

Yeah, it's tough. I mean, I mentioned them before, but Daft Punk is definitely one of the biggest. That's like the first CD I ever bought. I was so into them, I loved them so much. I saw them live as many times as I could. So, they'd probably be number one, but there are a million other people along the way that also gave me a boost. Prodigy is definitely another one.

When did you first start listening to Daft Punk?

I was probably 12 or 13. And at that time, there was already a lot to dig into. They had already been putting a lot of stuff out and had a cool history to get into and find new stuff and all that.

How does Brooklyn influence your sound and aesthetic?

Oh, wow, great question. It's tough to say. Throughout my whole musical career, I've always lived here, so I guess it's definitely soaked in, in some way or another, whether I knew it or not. It's more of a subconscious thing, I guess, like the type of music I hear from a car that's passing by.

Maybe it's walking around. It's my favorite thing to do, take random walks where I don't have anywhere to go. I think, in doing that, I soak in all the weird sights and sounds and everything about New York in general. That just seeps in and mixes with everything else and somehow inspires the music.

Where did you grow up?

I was born in Philly, then I moved to London until I was 12. Afterward, I moved back to the U.S., to Connecticut, then I moved back to London for one more year. I moved to New York when I was 18. So, I grew up between the U.S. and London. And being in London was huge, that's where electronic music was happening. It was on the radio all the time. That's definitely where I got the love for electronic music.

How will you be celebrating the GRAMMYs?

I'm going to try to get the nicest outfit I can and do it up as best I can!

GRAMMY Flashback: Watch The Evolution Of Style At The GRAMMYs From The 1960s To The Present

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brother-sister duo Lastlings, aka Josh & Amy Dowdle, pose together in all-black

Lastlings

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Sibling Duo Lastlings Talk Debut Album 'First Contact,' Sci-Fi Inspiration, Sending Memes To RÜFÜS DU SOL & More

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Lastlings discuss getting back on stage in Australia, the vision and process for creating 'First Contact,' working together as siblings, their friendship with RÜFÜS DU SOL, and more
Ana Monroy Yglesias
GRAMMYs
Jun 18, 2021 - 6:10 am

Lastlings, made up of Josh and Amy Dowdle, create moody, synth-filled music inspired by sci-fi soundtracks and other dimensions. The Japanese-Australian brother-sister duo, on production duties and vocals/lyrics respectively, began dropping tracks in 2015 when they were still teenagers. 

Since then, they've toured with fellow synth-loving Aussies RÜFÜS DU SOL, remixed for them and are signed to their Rose Avenue imprint, fostering a mentorship that has grown into a true friendship (meme sharing included.) That relationship has been major in growing their recognition and fanbases in Australia, the U.S. and beyond.

Lastlings released their emotive debut album, First Contact, in November 2020 on Rose Avenue and Astralwerks, which has spawned remixes from LP Giobbi, CRi, Tim Englehardt and others. Their trippy, otherworldly visuals and their name came from an essay Josh wrote in high school about the last humans on earth. 

GRAMMY.com caught up with Amy and Josh over Zoom to learn more about getting back on stage in Australia recently, the vision and process for creating First Contact, working together as siblings, their friendship with RÜFÜS DU SOL, and more.

You wrapped up a real life, in-person Australia tour in May. What did it feel like to get back on stage after everything that was last year?

Amy: It felt really good. We missed playing shows so much. I think our first show of the tour was the first one we've played in about a year and a half. It was really awesome to be back on stage and to see people coming to our shows again.

The first few shows of the tour were actually seated and then I think the second half of the tour was standing, which was really cool. We're so lucky here in Australia that we get to actually play shows.

I was watching a Boiler Room or something for a real festival in Australia and people just looked so happy. It's nice to see people being happy and dancing together safely.

Josh: Yeah, especially where we're from, on the Gold Coast, it didn't really feel like there was much of an effect there. We had a little bit of a lockdown, but we were really lucky that we could still leave the house and go to the beach and all that kind of stuff. People in Melbourne had it way tougher, they went into lockdown a few times, [where] they couldn't leave the house or the five-kilometer radius.

And I think once it started to open up in Melbourne, that's when all the bigger events started happening down here and everyone was just like gearing to go out and have fun. And I've actually moved down to Melbourne from the Gold Coast and Amy's almost here, she's going to move to Melbourne as well. We're really excited for this next chapter.

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I want to talk about your album that came out last year. What was the vision for First Contact? What was the timeline for its release?

Amy: It's about all the moments you experienced in life for the first time and how they shape us as people. When we first started writing it, I think we wrote this one song that never actually made it onto the album and it was called "First Contact" at the time. We were like, "Oh, actually that'd be cool as an album name."

Josh: But yes, since then that song went to the back of the line and I still haven't finished it yet. And it's since changed names, but hopefully, it might make its way onto the second album. We didn't start writing First Contact as a like, "Oh we're going to write this album now." We started writing singles, and I think the first song that we finished was "Deja Vu" and that was ages ago, has to be two or three years ago.

That was the first one that we finished together, and then all the other ones we demoed out and then we went to America and we finished it. We stayed at the Rose Avenue house where RÜFÜS DU SOL was finishing their album [Solace] and we've worked a lot with Cassian, who's worked a lot with RUFUS. We were just really lucky to pair up with those guys and they helped us a lot with getting songs to another level. We learned a lot and they were really, really helpful with the album.

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So did you finish it before the pandemic?

Josh: Yeah, we finished it right before the pandemic, and we actually went to Japan to film our album teaser content and all of our press and promo stuff. We wanted to go out with a bang with this album, and Japan is such a beautiful place. We went over there literally right before COVID, it was right before Christmas actually.

And then COVID hit, so we couldn't really tour the album or didn't know what to do, so we had all this content backed up. So we just drip fed it all throughout 2020. We were lucky we could make that trip before COVID hit.

I was reading another interview, did you record some of the album or work on it in Japan?

Amy: Oh no, a lot of the lyrics were written in Japan. After I finished high school, I went to Japan with my mom. I used to sit up in my grandparents' top bedroom and it looked out onto all the other buildings with snow on them. It was a really good place to write, so I wrote a few of the songs there. Then, when Josh was 18—Do you want to tell the story, Josh?

Josh: I was 21. I went [to Japan] for four or five months and during that time I downloaded my first music software and was learning while I was traveling. And I know it sounds like a made-up story, but I was sitting on the bullet train one day and I open the software for the first time and literally I was going past Mount Fuji. It was a really beautiful, picturesque moment. The town that I was going to stay in got snowed in, so instead I stayed in a little hostel, just myself and the caretaker.

I just had nothing to do other than learn how to use the software, or read or walk out and go eat this special noodle there. It was just a really cool little town and I had to spend two or three weeks there snowed in because I couldn't leave. I couldn't go back to Tokyo, so I had no choice but to learn some music production.

That's so cool. Did being in Japan and the atmosphere there give birth to some of the songs?

Josh: Yeah, it's just a very inspiring place. And all the architecture, just the purposefulness of Japan and how much care they put into everything is very inspiring too.

Do you feel like the creative energy when you were working or writing in Japan felt different than when you're writing in Australia, than when you're writing in L.A.?

Amy: We [were] inspired by [the] snow [in Japan] a lot because we just don't have that here in Australia. It's just dry. We have a lot of other beautiful things.

Also, Blade Runner inspired this album a lot, it's one of our favorite movies. There's this scene where he's walking in the snow and it reminded us of Japan a lot. And we just don't have that in Australia, we don't have snow here. We do in one city but it's like the only place where you can go to here that actually has snow.

Josh: There are heaps of places that snow in Australia.

Amy: Really? Not like in Japan.

Josh: Yeah, not in the main towns, but yeah like it snows in Canberra, Melbourne and Sydney.

Amy: Yeah, but not like as much as Japan does, it snows everywhere in Japan.

Can you talk a little bit about the meaning and inspiration for the "Out Of Touch" music video?

Josh: [Chuckles.] So, we were meant to film it as like a three-part music video with "Out Of Touch," "No Time" and the interlude. We filmed it in South Australia because it was the only place we could travel to, there was like a travel bubble I guess you'd call it between South Australia and Queensland, two States in Australia. We found a Screen South Australia photo gallery, where you can see where lots of different film sets and locations [were shot].

We went there without really scoping them out and it kind of backfired on us a little bit because we got there—it was just the weather. I think because they had the most rain they've had in like 40 years. So a lot of the places that we wanted to film at, like the salt flats—there's really beautiful salt flats that are really reflective—they were just completely muddy and gross. And we went to two of those, they were both just completely ruined. Then we went to the sand dunes to film and it was like 60 kilometer winds and the whole trip we were just getting absolutely ruined by the weather.

But it was like one of the most fun trips ever because we normally shoot with our friend Dylan Duclos and our close friend Rico Zhang was over from China, where he's a director. So we all collaborated on the idea together and went over and shot it together. We didn't get as much as we wanted out of it, but it turned out great in the end.

Amy: We pretty much just got one video out of what was meant to be three videos.

Josh: Yeah, we had to come back and reshoot a lot of the stuff in Queensland to actually finish the "Out Of Touch" video. And all the set builds, like the big monolith and the stuff we stand on, my dad and I had to rebuild them when we came back to Queensland and we had to get a truck and lug them around. There was so much that went it, it was a very D.I.Y. shoot, so we were cutting off on the corners and building a lot of this stuff ourselves and pulling in a lot of favors, basically.

What was the initial inspiration for the visuals—when I'm watching it, I feel like there's imagery and stuff that probably means something, like the burning tree?

Josh: It ended up becoming more of an arty conceptual piece more than something that had a clear narrative. Because when we had it in the three-act form, it was the Lastlings—which are us—we go and collect our army from this kind of research facility, then we take them back because that world is going to explode or deteriorate. That was the first act and then the second one was a limbo of the Lastlings walking through a dream-esque land. And then the third act was the resolve, when Amy collects everyone and takes them back because the world is going to explode.

Amy: And there are all just these different Amys. It's like "Rick and Morty." [Laughs.]

Josh: It became a really ambitious thing with time constraints and the weather and everything just kind of fell to bits at the end, but we managed to get enough footage for "Out
Of Touch" and make it a really nice, interesting piece.

You know when you watch something and you're like, "Is there something more? What does this mean?" I'm glad I wasn't really missing things, but it's super cool and it feels cinematic.

Josh: Yeah. There wasn't too much symbolism and stuff, like you said with the fire, and all the portals and stuff. But I think the moments in themselves are really cool because we got to explore some VFX stuff and really just flex on a lot of our own movie inspos that we love; there was a lot of Blade Runner references.

Even random movies like Prometheus, with the color grading and all that kind of stuff as well. It was almost like a homage to all of our favorite sci-fi films. Even the big planet in it kind of looks like the Death Star from Star Wars. And the monolith, it was like the ones in Space Odyssey.

What's it like making music together as siblings?

Amy: Sometimes we do fight but then we can be really honest with each other [about] what we like and don't like, too. And every time we're on tour and stuff, we're always so comfortable because we always know that we have a good friend there with us. Some people tour by themselves—I've asked people this as well, and they've said that sometimes they get a bit lonely or they wish they had someone close with them. So it's nice to have a brother there with you when you're on tour and stuff.

Josh: Yeah, for the music-making part, we're both very different. Amy does the lyrics and the singing and I do most of the production. So, we work kind of separately most of the time, like I'll do an instrumental or a bit of piano or just an idea, and then Amy generally writes some lyrics over that. And at the moment, it's kind of hard because we're not living in the same city, so we kind of have to send stuff back and forth and record it in our own time.

What was your workflow on the album?

Josh: I think Amy wrote most of her lyrics when she was in Japan and then I did a lot of the instrumental stuff. I made a lot of instrumental demos with ideas on them and then I kind of gave them to Amy and then she could recycle lyrics from her Japan trip or write new ones. It's a very collaborative process when most of the time it doesn't really start with us [together], but usually, it starts with me with an instrumental, then Amy writes on it.

What kind of music did you guys grow up listening to? Was it like a musical house and everything?

Amy: Yeah. I grew up listening to a lot of classical music and mom used to listen to a lot of J-Pop and so I listened to that too. And a lot of indie rock music when I was in my teens and then I started listening to electronic music when I was 18 or 17. I listened to a bunch of different stuff.

Josh: Yeah, we both started playing classical music when we were younger and then I quit. And it wasn't for a few years until I got into rock music, like Led Zeppelin and the Chili Peppers and all that kind of stuff. I think I did like one classical guitar lesson, and I hated that and quit. I taught myself electric guitar, then played in a band with a few friends. I think all my music interests were kind of around the music I was playing at the time. So like I said, Led Zeppelin, Red Hot Chili Peppers, is kind of the music we were playing in our band and Arctic Monkeys. Then I kind of moved on to more synthy stuff, more electronic stuff.

I think DJ Koze was my first introduction to electronic music. I think the DJ Koze remix of "Bad Kingdom" by Moderat was one of the first songs that I heard out in the club randomly one time that I'd actually really liked. Because the rest of them—it was just a kick drum really. That song really stuck out [to] me. I really loved electronic music from then.

I love that track. I think it was summer 2014? I just remember having it on repeat, and every time a DJ would play it, I was just like, "You're my favorite DJ."

Josh: Yeah, it was so good. And then like everyone started to rinse it; it just got so overplayed, but it's still such a good song. There were just a few DJs on the Gold Coast that would kind of ruin it; they'd play it too fast or just play it at the wrong time.

It was one that my friends and I would always play when we were DJing together. That's right, I started DJing before I started making music. My friends and I got one of those little [DJ] controllers when we were like 18, teaching each other how to DJ, it was so cute.

Do you remember your first electronic song or producer that you liked, Amy?

Amy: I actually think it was RÜFÜS. I would have been 15 when they put out "Take Me." I didn't even know that song was them when we were touring with them. I went back and found it and I was like, "I really liked that song when I was really young. My friends and I used to always play it," which is funny. I think that song and then also probably Flume when I was really young, he was probably one of the first electronic artists I started listening to.

And then it just started to evolve and then I went to a festival in Melbourne with Josh and a bunch of friends and I watched Fatima Yamaha and that was like the reason why I wanted to start listening to more electronic music.

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And what does your relationship with RÜFÜS feel like for you guys?

Josh: It's really good. They're like really chill and really, really nice guys. So, it was really easy to get along with them when we were touring together. And even when they were giving us feedback for some of our songs as well, they're really great guys to work with. So we've become friends as well, it's really cool, we send each other memes and stuff. It's great.

That's awesome. Yeah, they're so nice. They seem like brothers—once you tour in a van around America together, you become brothers.

Josh: Totally, totally. Yeah we were lucky to go and stay on their tour bus as well when we were doing some of the American shows, which [was a] really cool experience. It's such a weird concept to do a tour bus because in Australia we kind of fly everywhere because the cities aren't close enough together.

Amy: So fun! [The buses] are so small, like little capsules. It's like staying in hotels in Japan, but on a bus.

You recently put out the Bob Moses remix. How do you usually approach a Lastlings remix?

Josh: I usually start with the vocals and with some chords and tend to stay in the same key as the remix. With that song, I wanted to preserve the vocals as much and not drop the pitch down and stuff because he has a really, really nice voice. There's a Four Tet remix, of Eric Prydz's "Opus"—I don't know why that was the inspo for it, I think because it has a really massive build. But yeah I just wanted to make a nice long, slow-burning remix that had a bit of a nice build-up in the second part.

But yeah, I don't know. I just kind of use my Prophet-6 [analog synth] to get a bunch of nice atmospheric sounds and then just start building around that. And then, I normally do all the melodies and all the chords and stuff first before I do the drums. I know a lot of other producers start with drums, but I do it the other way around.

That's cool. I really liked that remix, it's nice.

Josh: Yeah, that was fun to make. I actually did another version of it first—I made four or five different remixes, but that was the one that I ended on.

Are you a perfectionist?

Josh: Oh, very.

Where did the name Lastlings come from?

Josh: Lastlings was a short story I wrote in high school about the last beings on earth. It was a dystopian story. All the trees and nature had grown over the cities and stuff. Have you seen "Love, Death & Robots" on Netflix? It's really good. In the new season, there was a city and I was like, "Oh my God, that's exactly the city that I had in mind when I was writing the story."

You guys are sci-fi nerds, I take it?

Josh: I like sci-fi. I always get asked that, but I guess I've seen a lot of them. I do love it. I just love really fantastical worlds and stuff that probably will never exist. The more we get into the future, I'm like, "Wow, maybe some of this stuff is actually real."

Amy: Yeah, every story I read in high school was fantasy or sci-fi.

Okay, broad question but I always like to end on a positive note. What's your biggest hope for the future?

Amy: I have so many wishes, I just want the world to be less f***ed up.

Josh: Pretty much. I really want Coronavirus to f*** off.

Amy: That's a lot of F words. I would like future generations are more open-minded—I think there's time [for all of us] to be more open-minded as well.

Josh: Yeah, I wish we had a more unified world and everyone was on the same wavelength.

Amy: Hopefully it's like that in the future.

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ZHU onstage

ZHU

Photo: Joey Vitalari

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ZHU Talks New Rave-Ready Album 'DREAMLAND 2021,' Being Inspired By Hyphy Music & Asian Americans Finally Being Heard

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ZHU's third album, 'DREAMLAND 2021,' is a tribute to returning to the dancefloor that invokes a dark, sweaty warehouse rave and features support from Channel Tres, Yuna, Tinashe and more
Ana Monroy Yglesias
GRAMMYs
May 14, 2021 - 8:56 am

Back in the summer of 2014, a driving, moody deep house earworm called "Faded" crept into our ears, swiftly becoming an inescapable bop around the world. It topped charts around the world—including hitting No. 1 on Billboard's Dance Club Songs chart—and made the then-mysterious singer/producer ZHU a star of the global dance scene and a GRAMMY-nominated artist.

Since his big debut, the artist born Steven Zhu in 1989 in San Francisco, California, has demonstrated his dexterity as a vocalist, producer, remixer, and collaborator, keeping mainstream dance music interesting and innovator. He's worked with Skrillex, SOFI TUKKER, Bob Moses, TOKiMONSTA and Majid Jordan, to name a few.

ZHU's third album, DREAMLAND 2021, released April 29 on Astralwerks, is a tribute to returning to the dancefloor, invoking a dark, sweaty warehouse rave, featuring support from Channel Tres, Yuna, Tinashe and more. GRAMMY.com caught up with the "Zhudio54" artist ahead of the immersive, powerhouse new album's release to learn about how it came together and what he thinks the future of dance music will look like. He also shares what the response to "Faded" felt like for him, the influence of growing up in the Bay Area on his music and Asian Americans' ongoing struggle against racism.

Let's start with the new album. Can you take us inside the dream of DREAMLAND 2021?

Yeah. For me, I think I've evolved quite a bit in the last couple of years sonically and just in my craft. I think from the beginning, people didn't really know maybe all the different assets musically that I was able to put in audio format because, even up to a couple of years ago, people didn't know that my voice was on the records or that I had written some of this or that.

This record definitely allows people to peep more into more of the whole 360 perspective of my music—from the production, to the vocals, to the features, to the different sonic landscapes. I'm pretty excited to let people get a taste of it.

Not unlike the last album, there are a lot of awesome collabs on this one—including Channel Tres, Yuna and Tinashe. How did you choose who to bring into the mix on this one?

Everything, honestly, that I do, it's just been pretty organic. I think getting in the studio with an artist always leads to either the best or worst. [Laughs.] I think with electronic music too, it's a lot of times we'll just send stuff out [to collaborators] and you never know what you're going to get back. But I really make it a point to craft the songs and the way I think the mood and direction goes. For this record, working with each artist was great. They all wanted to be on it and it was all pretty organic.

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Were the collaborations all remote or were you able to meet up in person with anyone?

I recorded everybody's vocals at my studio. The Yuna song ["Sky Is Crying"], her and I had written an earlier version of it a long time ago and I randomly stumbled upon it one day. I was like, "This song is really great, I want to put in a club." So, I redid the song and sent it to her and we finished this version of that record pretty much this year.

What was it like working with each of them?

Everything has been fast. I mean, I don't really do more than one or two takes on anything. I feel like if you're not going to get it with instinct it's not—I don't look at it as filmmaking, where you have like seven, 12, 50, 100 takes. Music is emotion first, so if it doesn't make you feel something immediately, then I usually go away from it and come back later. Or it just comes out and it's there.

And obviously, there's a lot of refining process but I've been trying more and more to keep things rolling and not as super-polished, pristine, because I want the character as well.

It's pretty easy to say this album will sound really good on a dancefloor and any kind of big-speakers situation. What do you think raving in the hopefully not-too-distant future will look like?

I think people are ready and I think when people get that taste of the feeling, they're going to go crazy. They've been starved and they're going to feast.

Do you think it's going to happen this year?

Raving? Yeah, definitely.

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Almost everything was shut down, but we've never had clubs and events close to this degree ever, really. Do you think it's going to lead to a new wave of dance music or that there's going to be a new underground sound? Obviously, things are going to be different, but what does it look like in your head?

Yeah, I mean, I think the people who are in it for the music are going to survive and the people who are in it just for the cash lifestyle, they probably found an alternative. Sonically, and from an underground perspective, I think it's bigger than ever. And you have people all across the world being able to access sounds and sets and know about artists that you could never have 20 years ago unless you were crate-digging or something like that.

I think it's going to go back to being kind of a purist genre, but everybody wants to experience it. So, I think we'll have a second boom, kind of a Renaissance phase for dance music and I think it just needs to be authentic and it's going to grow pretty quickly.

And for you, as a DJ/producer, what does the energy of the dancefloor feel like from that perspective?

I think a lot of dance music has been pretty geared towards streaming and radio in the past decade. I'd like to see more dancefloor-focused and groove-focused stuff. But again, with that said, I'm also not inhibited to just four-on-the-floor and having to create something that is just super 124 [BPM], all-night-long stuff.

You're actually returning to the stage very soon with your DREAMROCKS shows [at Red Rocks Amphitheatre in Colorado]. What are you most looking forward to about having an audience again?

I'd say to feel it again. Everybody is looking at the future of having these shows, but it's not the same until you really get onstage and it sets in. Right now, we're just talking about it, but talking about it does nothing until you actually get up there and really get in that moment and understand, "What am I performing now?"

It's been over a year and a half, and just to get that spark and get that kind of connection again with the fans is really the first step for me because I don't like talking about making music. I just make it.

Looking back a little bit, what did the massive success of the GRAMMY-nominated single "Faded" feel like for you back in 2014?

That was the beginning of everything. It was such a gargantuan first record that I think the expectations for me have been [high]. After that, I was like, let me just go create bodies of work and really allow people to enter this world that I built, instead of trying to chase hits and trying to replicate and manufacture the same sh*t over and over again.

I really tried not to let ["Faded"] be the metric of what I was doing, even though that was responsible for probably the biggest record released and then charting and blowing up and being in all these countries instantaneously, that I've experienced.

Did you have any idea that it would take off like that?

Nope, but I always just knew that people had a reaction to the record. I just didn't know that 60-plus countries would all be playing it. And that I would hear it in person, in some place in a distant country that I didn't even knew played my records.

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Going a little further back, how did your experience growing up in the Bay Area, attending raves as a teen, inspire you to start making dance music yourself?

Yeah, when I grew up, I think a lot of the culture initially was hip-hop and the hyphy movement that was going on in the Bay Area, [led by] E-40 and other [rappers]. And it was this era, there was a swagger, there was a Bay Area kind of lingo, there was a Bay Area pace of life, a way you'd drive. It's hard to explain unless you grew up in that era there.

A lot of the beats for those hip-hop records were super simple. They weren't super complicated, like sampled Kanye [West] beats or like [old-school] New York hip-hop. At that time, it was very simple, just 808s, synths, and everybody just dance. It wasn't necessarily story-telling, lyrical aficionados. It was "Let's bounce with the cars, have a good time."

I think that influenced a lot of electronic music of that period of time too, in which people just wanted to just have some slappers. And I try to keep that in mind all the time, to try to not over-complicate stuff, to simplify things to where people can just really feel the rhythm around the world, in every single country. Everybody knows how to move their body regardless of if they can understand the lyrics.

When you were younger and going to raves, was there a moment when it clicked, like, "Oh, I can do this. I can make electronic music"?

Yeah. In the beginning, there was a Haight-Ashbury scene, which was a lot more kind of indie [music], like jam bands and rock, with rock clubs. And they had raves in the Cow Palace, which was huge. It was a lot of trance going on at that time, and very deep, elevator house music going on.

I didn't really realize until I was a little bit older, probably 19 or so. It was in the middle of a show and I had this realization that 10,000 people were just staring at one person playing music, and that was enough, that was the future. It didn't need to be eight people up there playing instruments. It was one person doing it. I had a sudden realization like, "Why isn't that me?" and that began the curiosity.

That was a very transitional period in San Francisco's history, before all the tech people came in. It was very much music- and art-driven, from everything to bands, to hip-hop, to DJs.

It seems like it still had a bit more of that lingering '70s vibe. Not so much anymore.

Nah. I mean, there would be Sundays in [Golden Gate] Park, were you'd go rollerblading and there'd be drum circles. There were just more artists there, but then everybody left.

This past year has been so much, a lot of darkness, a lot of unfortunate violence in addition to the pandemic. And it's all especially impacted communities of color. How do you think as a country, as people, we can better support and protect the Asian American community?

For the first time, the Asian American people spoke up and were heard and had a voice. In the last 10 years, I don't really remember where there's been significant, overwhelming support from other people solely on Asian American issues. And I think people now realize that America, in 2021, is made up of a lot of different types of people.

And most of these people have lived here for at least a generation, and they grew up at the same high schools, eat the same food, listen to the same music, they just have different skin color. They don't, especially for Asian Americans who grew up here, really identify with the native country that they're from because they didn't grow up there, but at the same time, they look like people that grew up there.

And you have this expectation of living in both worlds and carrying two burdens. And obviously, there's so many Asian countries and each one has their own unique culture. So it's hard to just generalize all that. But being in America, you are just generalized.

Yeah. That's such a good point, that it really has been an accumulation—it's not like racism against Asian Americans just popped up last year.

No, it hasn't. It's been around since any Asian person has come over, from Chinese people to Japanese people, and back to the Chinese Exclusion Act [in 1882] and Japanese internment camps during World War II.

The good thing is people are talking about it now and they can do their own research and they can go dig a little further. I don't really expect other people necessarily to fully understand, but I think if they're willing to listen, then that's already the first step.

What's your biggest hope for this year?

I think that without live events—everything from sports, to concerts, to just being able to go to city gatherings like San Francisco's Bay To Breakers [race and parade]—people need to see other people doing things that they enjoy. Then, it won't so distant and categorizing different types of people, because at these shows you get to meet new people who like the same things and then you have a personal connection with them. You get to learn about their stories, you get to experience things with them and it makes you much more open to different things.

And I think all the energy stored up, from not being able to release it, has caused people to channel it in other ways, some positive, some negative. If you can't mosh at a show, you're  going to go mosh protest, if can't go trip super hard at a rave, you're going to do it elsewhere, you know what I mean? So, at least there will be a place for people to know that there's other people that are similar to them, and I think that's a big, positive thing no matter what. Bad things happen all the time, but knowing other people go through it with you is probably one of the most comforting things.

Sama' Abdulhadi Is Techno & Techno Is Freedom

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