Josh Gad

Josh Gad

Photo: Crawford Shippey

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Josh Gad Talks New Animated TV Show "Central Park" And His Mission To Become A Better Ally

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The GRAMMY-winning actor and singer breaks down the creative and musical vision that make "Central Park" a "true musical" and discusses how he's using his platform to address racial injustice head-on
John Ochoa
GRAMMYs
Jun 20, 2020 - 4:59 pm

Central Park represents a lot of things for a lot of people. For locals, it's a haven, a much-needed escape from the concrete jungle of New York City. For tourists, it's a must-see destination atop an endless list of can't-miss city stops. Josh Gad's version of Central Park is something all its own.

On "Central Park," his new animated musical TV comedy, now streaming on Apple TV+, the GRAMMY-winning actor and singer paints the beloved NYC landmark as a quirky place offering diverse sounds and colors through the prism of the city. Or as his character on the show, the happy-go-lucky busking narrator Birdie, calls it, "It's like New York, but undressed." 

Like the sprawling sight itself, "Central Park" is a unique composite of equally unique parts. There's the all-star cast, which includes GRAMMY winners and "Hamilton" stars Leslie Odom Jr. and Daveed Diggs, as well as Hollywood giants Kristen Bell, Stanley Tucci, Tituss Burgess and Kathryn Hahn. There's the stellar soundtrack, which features songs written by Fiona Apple, Meghan Trainor, Cyndi Lauper and Sara Bareilles, among many others. Then there's the creative team behind it all, which includes co-creators/co-executive producers Loren Bouchard, the creator of fellow animated hit TV series "Bob's Burgers," Emmy Award winner Nora Smith and Gad himself. 

But first and foremost, "Central Park" is a musical, a deliberate move Gad made from the jump.

"When I pitched this idea to Loren Bouchard ... and his partner, Nora Smith, I said to them, 'I want to do a true musical,'" Gad tells the Recording Academy. "'I don't want this to be a pastiche musical, I don't want it to be a spoof of musicals. I don't even want it to be a show with music. I want it to be a musical. I want the songs to be a part of the very fabric of the story, and I want the characters to have no emotional choice but to break out into song.'"

The show follows the Central Park-dwelling Tillerman family, which includes Owen (Odom Jr.), the patriarch of the family who works as the park's manager; Paige (Hahn), the journalist mom of the crew; and their two children, Molly (Bell) and Cole (Burgess). Their home is threatened when hotel tycoon Bitsy Brandenham (Tucci) and her assistant Helen (Diggs) try to turn Central Park into luxury condos. 

Despite the show's playfully ominous premise, "Central Park" has become a beacon of light for Gad since it debuted last month (May 29) during the coronavirus-fueled quarantine era. 

"It's surreal to see the kind of light it's bringing people in this moment of infinite darkness that we find ourselves in," he says of the show, "and it's a joy to be able to give something that is so joyful to the world." 

The Recording Academy chatted with Josh Gad about the creative and musical vision behind "Central Park," the dystopian soundtrack to 2020 and the lessons he's learned while working to become a better ally.

"Central Park" features what I would consider the definition of an all-star cast. The Los Angeles Times described it best: "The Avengers of musical theater." As one of the show's creators and executive producers, how involved were you in the casting? How did you navigate that process?

I was responsible for doing it. It was a conversation that I had with Loren [Bouchard] at the beginning, before we even had a script. He said, "On Bob's Burgers, what we did was we cast the people that we wanted to work with, and then we built characters around them." By casting the people we want to work with, he meant your friends, people that you see yourself doing this with. I reached out to all of the people that I knew I would want to not only work with, but that could legitimately carry a musical and not have it feel like we were bullsh*tting the audience, that we were autotuning anybody, that we were not giving anyone a voice that could legitimately match the incredible level on display in terms of the music that was written for the show.

I began by reaching out to people, like my college classmate Leslie Odom Jr. who had just won a Tony for a glowing performance in "Hamilton." And somebody I admired greatly also from ["Hamilton"], Daveed Diggs; both said yes. Kristen Bell, my co-star from Frozen, it was an immediate yes. And one by one—Tituss Burgess, Kathryn Hahn and Stanley Tucci—all signed on, and Loren and I were just in awe; we just couldn't believe it ... It's been very much about making sure that everyone who comes on really rises to the level of not only being the perfect vocal match for dialogue and the speaking voice, but also for the singing voice.

How do you go about balancing the plot with the songs? Do you write the songs and the show's plot congruently? Are the songs inspired by the plot itself, or vice versa?

It's a bit of both. When I pitched this idea to Loren Bouchard ... and his partner, Nora Smith, I said to them, "I want to do a true musical. I don't want this to be a pastiche musical, I don't want it to be a spoof of musicals. I don't even want it to be a show with music. I want it to be a musical. I want the songs to be a part of the very fabric of the story, and I want the characters to have no emotional choice but to break out into song."

We really tried to make it as cohesive a process as possible. Meaning, every episode we asked the question, "What moments want and need to sing? And what moments of the story feel like they need to be told through music rather than dialogue?" Once we have isolated what those moments are, then we break it down even further and we ask ourselves, "Do we want this song to be a function of the story? To tell us plot? Do we want this song to function as a comedic song? Do we want the song to function as an 'I want' song?" 

Once we identify those, then we go to the composers, either our in-house brilliant team of Kate Anderson and Elyssa Samsel and Brent Knopf, or our guest composers, people like Anthony Hamilton, people like Cyndi Lauper, people like Aimee Mann and Alan Menken, and we then have them bring their magic.

The show has been in production for a few years, prior to the quarantine. Did you have plans to take this show from TV to the stage? Or is that something that's potentially still in progress?

Oh, that hasn't even been broached. People have already started asking that question like yourself, which gives me such joy that people would even consider it to be worthy enough for the stage. I think right now, we're just trying to do our day job and we're in the midst of season two, and we're in the midst of literally creating an entire animated series from our respective homes. That's been the real challenge right now: How do we, in this ever-changing world, keep the wheels turning?

Read: Glen Ballard On How His Netflix Show "The Eddy" Puts Music, Jazz And Performance First

Your character in the show is a huge fan of Central Park. What about you?

I'm a huge fan of "Central Park." I've been a fan of "Central Park" for the past year. It's been a really frustrating thing to not be able to share it with the world until now. It is surreal to see kids already singing these songs in a way that truly reminds me of the experience I've had with Frozen. It's surreal to see the kind of light it's bringing people in this moment of infinite darkness that we find ourselves in, and it's a joy to be able to give something that is so joyful to the world. 

So much of the content that is on TV, it has a cynicism about it. What I love about Loren and what I love about Nora is they approach "Bob's [Burgers]" and subsequently "Central Park," along with myself, with a desire to just infuse as much joy into the world as possible.

As far as the songwriting team, were you wanting to keep a regular cast of songwriters and composers? Or were you trying to institute an open-door approach?

Philosophically, my idea from the beginning was, if we're going to write four songs an episode, over 45 songs in a season, I do not want to put the burden on any one or even two individuals. I knew that we needed to have an anchor back at base, if you will, and that anchor became Kate and Elyssa, who I'd worked with on [2017 animated featurette] Olaf's Frozen Adventure years ago. I knew they were geniuses, and similarly Brent Knopf who came out of the "Bob's [Burgers]" world.

In addition to that, I knew that we needed somebody to come in every week and change the dynamic and keep the audience guessing. Then I thought that's what will keep the show fresh. We cast a wide net. The first person we went to, because we felt like she was the perfect match for the song, was, of course, Sara Bareilles. She wrote this incredible song called "Weirdos Make Great Superheroes." It was sort of a test run, but it was such a brilliant slam dunk that it put us all at ease and allowed us to recognize, "OK, this could actually work."

You work a lot in animation. Your credits include the Frozen, Ice Age and Angry Birds Movie franchises, among other titles. What is your attraction to that genre?

I'm attracted to anything that allows for as broad of an audience as possible to enjoy it. The movies that I love the most are movies that I grew up with. Movies that I experienced at 7 or 5 and now watch at 39 and still get such joy and satisfaction out of it. I love a good R-rated film, too, and I love to do them. There is something compelling to me about the broader appeal of those things that really allow for people of all ages to enjoy them, and I think animation, for whatever reason, is part of that tradition. It's got a timelessness, in many cases to it, and an opportunity to transcend any demographic.

You do come from a theater and Broadway background. Lately, you've been really busy with film and TV projects, as well as your YouTube series, "Reunited Apart." Do you ever miss the stage?

Every day, every day. I'd been flirting with doing something with my buddy, Andrew Rannells. We were, sort of like, legitimately looking at, and my prayer is that there is a stage to go back to in 2021, because I know we very much would like to have that opportunity.

Everyone's having a hard time right now with the pandemic, particularly the Broadway world. Have you had difficulty either enjoying your own show or just having a good time in general during this time of quarantine, nationwide protests and civil unrest? Are you able to enjoy the things you're creating?

No, but I'm a glutton for punishment. I genuinely have had a very difficult time enjoying much right now because it's so damn hard. There's so much sadness. There's this virus keeping everyone at home. There's this unbelievable recognition of inequality on the streets. There's so little about 2020 that's been worthy of smiles or worthy of joy. So the joy that I get is from being able to hear others take joy from what I can give. That's where I find my joy.

There is not a moment where I watch "Central Park" and I'm not absolutely floating. But I'm also watching it in critical of myself or critical of things that we could have done better. With that, and with my own neuroses put aside, the real blessing, the real joy, the real sense of fulfillment that I'm getting now is by hearing that it's bringing exactly what it was intended to those who have seen it.

If 2020 were a musical, what would it sound like?

Oh man, probably like the intro to Jaws [Laughs]. Or like the entire soundtrack to Mad Max: Fury Road or Blade Runner [Laughs]. I don't know. Find the most dystopian movie possible and fill in the blank.

The one silver lining that I've heard over and over about this difficult time in our lives is that it will produce great art. Out of the struggles we're all going through as a global community, we will eventually get some amazing art. Do you think that's a possibility?

I think it's a probability. If history has shown us anything in the art community, it's that some of the greatest pieces of art, some of the greatest moments that we have all celebrated in a movie theater or otherwise have been during very difficult times. You look at some of the iconic films, like Casablanca, like The Wizard Of Oz, that come out of these moments like the Second World War, the Great Depression. You look at movies like The Godfather that come out of moments like Vietnam. You look at these tremendous movies that come out of a time when the world seems backed into a corner.

It's a cliche at this point, but Shakespeare wrote some of his greatest plays during the plague. That's telling. That speaks to the potential of all of us, and I see that in movies, I see it in TV, but I especially see it in music. Some of the most powerful songs that I have always found to be some of the most influential in my life are songs that came out of the civil unrest of the 1960s. I see this as a similar opportunity all around.

You've been very vocal on social media about the heavy issues happening in our country right now, with regard to the nationwide protests, racial injustice, civil unrest. Do you consider yourself an ally? What does being a good ally mean to you?

Do I consider myself a good ally? I think you would have to ask others if they consider me a good ally because I feel so weird answering that question. I can tell you that my intention has always [been] to be an ally to everyone who needs it. I say this as someone who grew up hearing about the consequences of not having allies, of not having those who can defend you during times of great need.

My grandparents both lost their entire families during the Holocaust, and the message that they gave me was, "Never forget." But it wasn't a message that ever felt to me like a message specific about Jews. It wasn't a message that ever felt like a message specific to one faith. It was a message about those who need us at times of great need. Those who are looked at as "the other," those who are looking down upon, those who are treated differently. My entire life has been, "Why should anybody be entitled to less than I am?" Because that's what I grew up with. That was the guiding philosophy of the life or death message that my grandparents gave me.

So do I see myself as an ally? I sure damn hope so. Could I do more? Absolutely. I think we could all do more. I think we're learning that right now. I think this is a great reminder and an opportunity, and one of the silver linings of 2020, that great can come out of dark. That we can evolve, we can fight back. We can come together and do more. We can listen more, we can learn more, and I hope to never stop learning. I hope to never stop making mistakes, so that I can be better for that.

Yes, I look at myself as an ally, but I look at myself as an ally who still has a long way to go.

Speaking of learning how to be a better ally, what have you learned so far in the last few months? What have you taken away from everything that you've been doing and everyone you've been talking to lately?

Man, I don't think the messages that I've learned can be put into one interview over a phone call, but I can give you a couple of highlights. I've learned there's so much I don't know. There's so much I don't know about the Black experience. There's so much I don't know about walking down the street and being judged in a way that could be life or death based on the color of your skin. There are so many things that I didn't know about the breadth of pain that so many people in my orbit and beyond have not only been feeling over the last few weeks, but have felt over the last however many years. And we're not talking about 10, 20 [years]—we're talking about over 100 [years].

I think that is the problem. Sometimes it's hard to experience things like the first Black president being elected and not think, "Man, we've really made changes, we've really done so much great. The world has changed." Then to see that not only has the world regressed, but there's so much accounting that still hasn't happened. There's so much accountability that still hasn't taken place, and there's so much wrong that is still being experienced by those who have felt wronged their entire lives.

There's been a lot that I've learned over the past three weeks, and specifically what I learned in a good way is that there are a lot of like-minded people who have had enough. My prayer for 2020 is that this isn't a moment—it's a movement. I hope that we can grow. I hope, as a parent, that I can teach, that I can give my kids a future that they not only deserve and that anyone deserves a future where equality is just a given. [Where] it's not something to even remotely consider the necessity of a march for, which, again, seems batsh*t crazy in the year 2020 that we have to be marching for that still, at this moment, with all we know and with what we've been through.

But man, racism is f*cking real. It's as real as the flower pot in front of me, it's as real as the phone that I'm on. And if we can't start recognizing the reality of it, then we can't change. That, to me, has given me the kernel of hope that I have. I think the band-aid's been ripped off. I think if all of us could stare at the wound long enough, we can start to heal.

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Lin-Manuel Miranda (L) and host/creator Hrishikesh Hirway (R) in "Song Exploder"

Lin-Manuel Miranda (L) and host/creator Hrishikesh Hirway (R) in "Song Exploder"

Photo: Eric Veras/Netflix

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Beat By Beat: How "Song Exploder" Unlocks The Intimacy Of Music And Creativity

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Based on the popular podcast, the newly launched Netflix series dissects classics and current hits one layer at a time, while host and creator Hrishikesh Hirway finds the human connection behind it all
John Ochoa
GRAMMYs
Oct 20, 2020 - 4:54 pm

Most people know "Song Exploder" as the popular podcast giving die-hard music fans a deep, inside look into the sonic mechanics behind their favorite tracks. A whole new class of music-heads now knows "Song Exploder" as the new Netflix series bringing the creativity behind music to the digital screen.

Originally launched as a podcast in 2014, "Song Exploder" dissects classic and current fan-favorite songs, with guest artists breaking down each individual track and element in detail to paint an intimate audio portrait of their art. The podcast, which has accumulated more than 60 million streams and downloads over the years and has hosted guests like U2, Selena Gomez, Björk, Fleetwood Mac, Solange and many others, now breathes new life as a Netflix docuseries. 

Introduced on the streaming platform at the beginning of October, "Song Exploder" adds an even deeper layer of storytelling and personal insight to the songs being deconstructed beat by beat. The show's inaugural four-episode run features Alicia Keys ("3 Hour Drive"), Lin-Manuel Miranda ("Wait For It" from "Hamilton"), R.E.M. ("Losing My Religion") and Ty Dolla $ign ("LA"). (Last week [Oct. 15], Netflix unveiled its next slate of guests for the show's second season, set to debut Dec. 15: Dua Lipa, The Killers, Nine Inch Nails and Natalia Lafourcade.

Whether in visual or podcast format, the core of "Song Exploder" remains the same: "an intimate portrait of an artist telling the story of how their artistic mind worked through creating one of their songs," host and creator Hrishikesh Hirway tells GRAMMY.com.

GRAMMY.com chatted with Hrishikesh Hirway about the human connection behind his new "Song Exploder" Netflix series and how he hopes the show will inspire others to create their own art.

You have an endless supply of songs from which to choose for any given "Song Exploder" episode, podcast and show. What needs to stand out in a song in order for you to develop it for "Song Exploder"?

The first step in the process is really identifying the artists before even getting to the song, because, frankly, I don't know necessarily which songs might have the best stories. The most famous songs don't necessarily have the most interesting stories, and the people who know that better than anyone are the people who made the songs.

But what I can try and determine is which artists seem really interesting and thoughtful, good storytellers, and who are also beloved by a lot of people. That's kind of where I start. And once I can get an artist onboard to talk about a song in this way, then I start the process of trying to narrow down which song it's going to be with them.

I feel like I don't know what the story [of the song] is all the time. There are a lot of songs that haven't necessarily been delved into, and frankly, I'm always interested in something like that ... where the backstory [of a song] hasn't been canonized and "Song Exploder" can be a place to tell it for the first time. So I really am relying on input from the artists ... The question that I ask them, frankly, is: Which of your songs do you feel the most emotional attachment to?

Ultimately, the most interesting stories, I think, when it comes to making songs or really making any kind of art, are about people and their feelings and the things that inspire them to make something at all. Even though the show is about music, it's also a portrait of each of these artists. In order to tell you something insightful, especially for it to be something that could be interesting to people who aren't people who make music themselves and also aren't necessarily even familiar with the artist or the song, it has to be something that connects to something in the human experience that feels significant.

I always try to make "Song Exploder" a show that reflected a broad range of genres and artists and backgrounds. So there's kind of almost a guarantee that you couldn't just get people hooked on the show based on who the artists were and what the songs were; I want everybody to watch every episode and listen to every episode of the podcast because I think that it's a worthwhile conversation to have. I think the creative process is something that's really fascinating in and of itself. It's an example of how people react to their own experience, to actually decide to make something based on their ideas, what they lived through, what they love ... The thing that I'm actually most interested in is that kind of emotional experience: the emotional attachment to the act of creating a piece of music.

Michael Stipe of R.E.M. in "Song Exploder"

Michael Stipe of R.E.M. in "Song Exploder" | Photo: Courtesy of Netflix/Netflix

There's a moment in the R.E.M. episode where frontman Michael Stipe gets almost emotional listening to his own voice on the band's classic, "Losing My Religion," and hearing the song elements broken down and presented to him in such an intimate manner, even after so many years since the song's release. How do you go about getting artists to open up to you and dive into their art so deeply?

I think one thing that helps is that I'm not really approaching [the interview process] head-on, certainly not right away. The questions don't start off front and center in like an emotionally investigative way. I think I have to earn their trust first, and part of that is from talking about the mechanics of the process first. That's the entry point in all these conversations. One of the reasons why having the [song's] stems is important, not just in terms of letting the listeners know what's going on in the song, but in terms of being able to facilitate that conversation with the artist.

Of all of the questions, the hardest one to answer is probably, "Why?" "Why did you decide to make the song this way? Why did you write this lyric? Why did you choose this chord progression?" That's the hardest [question], but it's also the one that I'm most interested in. But it's a little easier to start off with, first of all, "What?" "What are we listening to?" And then to ask them, "OK, how did you make it? And when did you make it?" All those basic factual questions are a way to just let them and me submerge ourselves into the memories of making that song.

Once they're there and able to relive some of the experience of it by hearing the actual evidence of the stuff that they did on that day—hearing their voice, hearing the instrument, hearing the actual track that they recorded around that time—it's a lot easier to ask them to then dig a few layers deeper and ask what was going on in their lives and how that might've fed into some of those creative decisions.

Read: Rhyme & Punishment: How NPR's "Louder Than A Riot" Podcast Traces The Interconnected Rise Of Hip-Hop And Mass Incarceration

You're now juggling the show and the podcast. How do you decide what songs go on the podcast format and what goes in video format?

Well, the podcast is a lot of work for a podcast, but that means that I'm still able to turn around an episode in a few weeks, whereas the TV show takes a much longer time to put together. There are just so many more components to it, and it's so much more work.

Part of the pitch for doing the television show is that I was trying to ask these artists to take a leap of faith, [like,] "This is something that's going to take a while to make, so you can't tie it to your promotional calendar, necessarily. I can't guarantee that it'll come out on such and such date to coincide with your single release or something like that." It was really more like, "Would you like to participate in this thing where there'll be this really meticulously crafted mini-documentary about this work that you did, and it's sort of evergreen."

That's a different pitch than with the podcast. Although with the podcast, I say all those things, too. I say it's evergreen and it's always better when it's not necessarily tied to your release schedule and more like when people have had a chance to live with the song a little bit. But one of the advantages of the podcast is it can be a little more nimble because it's a little easier to put together.

So this is a long way of saying that a lot of times that question is answered by the artists themselves or their publicists or managers, who are looking for a very specific outcome or timing, or they have something in mind, and that could be a matter of scale. It really depends on the circumstances of the artist and what works for them.

Fans who've been following the podcast for a while will find a totally different experience when they come to the show. There are two types of storytelling when I hear "Song Exploder," the podcast, and when I watch "Song Exploder," the docuseries. The podcast is very audio-heavy: You get to really hear all of the isolated bits and pieces of the song. The show has a lot more historical and cultural context, sort of like a mini-documentary for a song, and you also hear from a lot more voices beyond just the recording artist. Beyond the visual element, what do you gain in terms of storytelling through the show?

I think one of the things that you mentioned is absolutely key to the TV show, which is that often on the podcast, it's just a single voice or maybe two voices together … But with the TV show, because the timeline was so different, there was a chance to stop and say, "OK, who do we really want? Who are all the voices that are involved in the creation of the song?" Maybe not just the artist, but also the collaborators that were essential to making the song. 

Having that kind of breadth and depth, it isn't always afforded to the shorter turnaround time and the scale of the podcast. But here, to really immerse the audience and give a really full picture of what the song was, having those other voices in there was really important. For [the] Alicia Keys episode [about the song "3 Hour Drive,"] we traveled to London to film with [the song's guest vocalist and co-writer/co-producer] Sampha and the [song's] co-writer/co-producer Jimmy Napes because we knew that they were going to only expand and flesh out the story.

I think a part of it is also a matter of craft, too. When you're working in audio, you're kind of only working in one dimension, which is time. You're just relying on one sense, hearing, and you're just basing everything on how long things take; the rhythm comes from just that one sense. But with TV, you have to also give a rhythm and complexity visually, too. You can't just transliterate the podcast into a TV format, where it's just one person talking, mixed with the isolated stems, because it wouldn't work; it would get very boring very quickly. So in order to have that kind of texture and nuance, we wanted to involve all those different people and try and give a little bit bigger of a picture than maybe what comes out in the podcast.

Do you see the podcast and the show as separate entities or related in the same family? Do you need to engage with both formats to fully appreciate or understand what "Song Exploder" is trying to do?

Oh, I don't think you have to engage with both. Of course, I would love it if people did, just because they're both things that I've put a lot of work into, and you want people to enjoy the stuff that you've worked on. This is not a great analogy, but I think it's sort of like reading a book or watching a movie that's been adapted of that book. I don't think you need to read the book to enjoy the movie, and vice versa, you don't need to have seen the movie to have full enjoyment of the book. But maybe you'll get something out of the experience of taking both in. Maybe it changes the way you feel about both.

This is, of course, a little bit different, because it's not even the same story that's being told. It's really just taking the core concept, which is an intimate portrait of an artist telling the story of how their artistic mind worked through creating one of their songs, and taking that concept and expressing it in these two different media. So it's much looser even than something like an adaptation of a book to a movie.

What artist or what song is your holy grail for the podcast or the show or both?

I don't have one holy grail—I think I probably have about a thousand. Anytime I start listening to music, I start wondering about it. That's not new since I started "Song Exploder"; it's the other way around. That's always been the way I listen to music. When I fall in love with a song, I want to hear it from the inside out. I want to hear what the individual tracks, what the individual stems sound like. I want to know what the ideas were that inspired all of these things that I'm falling in love with. "Song Exploder" was just a way of me being able to actually make that happen for myself. So anytime I'm listening to music and I hear something great, you could put it on the list.

Ty Dolla $ign in "Song Exploder"

Ty Dolla $ign in "Song Exploder" | Photo: Courtesy of Netflix/Netflix

What is your ultimate goal with "Song Exploder"?

I wish people would either watch the show or listen to the podcast and come away with a feeling that they want to make something themselves. Part of my aim with the show is to democratize the act of creation a little bit. I think it's easy to look at very successful artists or very successful songs or any kind of art in any format, where it has reached a certain level of success, and think that there's some uncrossable boundary for everyday people that keeps them from making something as great as those songs …

I think the best feeling that I always get from finishing working on an episode is something akin to that. That like, I just want to go make something, and it doesn't just have to be music. I think that anybody who is interested in making anything at all, to get something from the show, just the idea of going from nothing but an idea and following that all the way through to a finished piece of art, I hope that might be inspiring to everyone.

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Rico Nasty

Rico Nasty

Photo: Jason Carman

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Welcome To Rico Nasty's 'Nightmare Vacation'

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As she gears up to release her debut album, 'Nightmare Vacation,' this fall, the Maryland-born rapper tells GRAMMY.com about the evolution of her sound, the cultural connection between her music and fashion and the new era of women-led rap music
John Ochoa
GRAMMYs
Sep 29, 2020 - 10:19 pm

Rico Nasty knows how to stand out. In an era filled with gray days and dark skies, she is the rainbow-bright, spiky-haired, fashion-forward loudmouth with nothing to hide and everything to gain. 

Since first breaking out in 2016 with her underground hits "iCarly" and "Hey Arnold," the Maryland-born rapper has become one of the most exciting, singular voices in today's hip-hop scene. Her unique take on the genre—melodic vibes and hard-edged flows over bright, bass-rattling trap beats, a style she's trademarked as "Sugar Trap"—has helped mutate rap music into all sorts of weird shapes and sounds. Rap music is all the better for it.

On her forthcoming debut album, Nightmare Vacation, Rico bridges her raw style with mainstream ambitions. Just take "iPhone" for a ride. Produced by fellow pop weirdo Dylan Brady, one half of experimental electronic duo 100 gecs, the song is an adrenaline rush of distorted hyperpop paired with Rico's washed-out, razor-sharp rhymes. In the middle of the track, she floats into soft R&B coos that can still cut like rusty blades. 

"I definitely feel like this is just a whole new vibe," Rico Nasty tells GRAMMY.com about the vision behind Nightmare Vacation. "It's a whole bunch of that overcoming, that, 'Wow, I didn't think I could do this.' And then actually do it and it sounds amazing. I look forward to that."

As she gears up to release Nightmare Vacation this fall, Rico Nasty checks in with GRAMMY.com to talk about the evolution of her sound on her debut album, the cultural connection between her music and fashion, and the new era of women-led rap music.

You found the name for your new album, Nightmare Vacation, while you were on a trip to Mexico last year. What's the significance behind the album's title?

I feel like life is dated by what a person thinks they should be. They find themselves in a "nightmare vacation." They find themselves surrounded by a bunch of the stuff that they thought they would love once they got it, but they realized that that wasn't what they wanted—it was what somebody else wanted. I felt like I dealt with a lot of that during [my trip] in Cabo, [Mexico]—just a whole lot of minding myself and growing up and realizing that can't nobody makes choices for me. I like what I like, I don't like what I don't like. I want in life what I want out of life.

I was listening to some of your older music, specifically your 2018 mixtape, Nasty, which is raw, it's hard and it's, well, pretty nasty. Nightmare Vacation has that same energy, but then you also have tracks like "Come Over" and "Loser," which show a little bit of a softer side with some R&B melodies. How would you say your sound has changed or evolved over the last couple of years, or since your last couple of releases?

I feel like I've been in the studio more than I ever have in my entire life. I was doing 72-hour sessions, even just literally experimenting and, obviously, drawing inspiration from the people that I love. I love Rihanna. I feel like she makes the best music, she has the best beats and melodies ever. I just tried to pull from my inspirations, but still keep it me, keep everything true to myself and ... everything that's been going on with my life.

You're doing something really unique and interesting with the rollout of Nightmare Vacation. With each of your announcements, you're sharing these personal letters in a series that you're calling the Nightmare Vacation Journal. Tell me about the journal series and the decision behind all of these personal letters.

I feel like before I dropped a song, I would get real nervous and I'd have all these thoughts. I get all tumbled up and emotional ... I never deal with a lot of other things. I can't really compare it to anything. Every time I drop a song, it's a process of letting go. I feel like whatever emotions I'm feeling the night before I drop those songs, I share my feelings. Whether or not they're meaningful messages or like ... I don't really know. It's just whatever comes to my mind, I feel like that's part of it. Every day, I might look back on this sh*t and say, "Why did I say that? Why did I think that? Why did I feel like that?" But it's just important to share that stuff so [my fans] know what type vibe I'm on when I'm releasing it.

In the first letter for the album's debut single, "iPhone," which you sent out in August, you wrote that you felt anxious about the announcement of Nightmare Vacation. Now that we're getting closer to the album's release, do you still feel anxious?

Yeah, I'm always anxious. I'm always anxious or excited ... I don't know what the word is. I'm always high-strung and ready for whatever ... As a child, I would never think that I would make an album, like a real album. I've toured and I've seen the world and I actually have fans—it's a dream come true. I think anybody would get anxious for sharing that with the world.

That's interesting because when I listen to your music, I don't hear a nervous or an anxious person. Your album, for example, has a track called "Own It," which is basically a self-empowerment anthem. Do you consider yourself confident?

Some days I'm confident. Some days I'm not. I feel like I'm confident when I make music.

When I hear you rapping, I feel like you very much are confident and you love yourself for who you are. How did you go about gaining that confidence? How did you learn to love yourself?

It's one of those things that I feel like, when you're born ... You have to just have an early sense of self-worth. When you're a kid, it's just certain choices that you make ... This is something small, but in high school, I was on this health kick, and I was going to the gym and I was in sports. I was serious about it. I was serious about taking care of myself. The older I've gotten, I became more aware of what it took to take care of myself. I feel like, when you strive for self-love and not perfection or all that other sh*t that you strive for, you just strive to be the best you, whatever you like. You gotta finesse it. It just makes you feel better about everything.

But like I said, you don't feel that way every day. I feel like anybody who's feeling great every day is a lunatic. You're a crazy person. There's no way everybody feels good every single day. There's no way, not one person. Everybody feel like sh*t. Some days I feel ugly. Some days I feel like the baddest person in the room. Some days I feel misunderstood. Some days I feel like everybody can relate to me ... It's up and down.

Read: Rico Nasty On Being Fearless & The Importance Of Highlighting Black Women's Emotions

Going back to your letters and journal, it all feels very intimate. They reveal a little vulnerability, and they're written directly to your fans. What's your relationship like with your fans, the so-called Nasty Mob?

I always tell them that our relationship is one-of-a-kind because they've never given me a hard time. I've never had a situation with my fans where I'm out and they're just giving me a hard time. Everybody who I come in contact with is just respectful and polite, dressed cool as hell, and their hair is fire and their makeup is fire. They're just a really cool individual. I always say that I would probably be friends with my fans if I was just a regular person, like if I just seen them out, I'd be like, "OK. You can hang with me. Let's get lit." It's just one big gang, one big mob.

Whenever I'm in the city, I personally invite certain fans that have come out to other shows. I just feel like I watched them growing. We all met when they was like 17 and I'm, like 19. My first time away from home, they first time ever going to a show. Just that human interaction is so important, especially now with coronavirus. I've cried a couple of times about missing them, like literally missing them, their presence, the way how I can get on stage and say, "Guys, I feel terrible today. Today has been the worst day ever." And they just scream at me and throw flowers at me, throw gifts at me, get on each other's shoulders, they mosh for me. It's one-of-a-kind, the love that I have for them. They're the best fans ever, I don't care what anybody says.

Rico Nasty

Rico Nasty | Photo: Jason Carman

It sounds like your fans are really excited about Nightmare Vacation. What do you think they're going to think about the album?

I just imagine a brain that's gray, and I just imagine a colorful brain after they see the album. [They're going] to be stimulated and well-fed and well-behaved. They probably won't be as mad at me as they are now. I feel like they're going to have a lot of fun with this album ... Fun by themselves, fun going for a walk, fun in the shower, fun driving alone. You don't even need a person to listen to this album with. You don't need nobody to party with. It's the party. This is the party. Put this b*tch on and let go. This the party in your room. You don't need nobody.

Read: Princess Nokia Is Making Space For People Who "Don't Have A Voice Yet" In Music

Speaking of having fun, did you have fun making Nightmare Vacation?

Yeah, I had fun making every single song on his album. But you know what I didn't have fun doing? I didn't have fun learning a whole lot of stuff. Obviously, every artist, you learn so much. You learn the ins and outs, you learn the ups and downs, you learn the pauses, the, "This might not be cleared. This might get cleared." This video and these dates and features and people available. You learn so much sh*t. So it definitely takes away [from] the glory of, "Wow this is great, great studio session!"

But that is what it is. It's Nightmare Vacation, man, f**k that. Everything's good, everything's bad—it's life. But you love life, right? You don't want to die. You want to see tomorrow. You might f***ing hit the lottery tomorrow. If you died, you wouldn't see that. You wouldn't see anything.

On an artistic level, does Nightmare Vacation feel different from what you've done before?

I definitely feel like this is just a whole new vibe. I never would have thought I could make a song like "Own It." "Own It" is so smooth, it's just different. The video is so couture and so camp, and it's different. It's a whole bunch of that overcoming, that, "Wow, I didn't think I could do this." And then actually do it and it sounds amazing. I look forward to that.

As you said, your "Own It" video shows some very futuristic fashion. You've got some strong looks on there. You have your hands in fashion: You have your own unique, very colorful look and style. You're going to be appearing and walking in Rihanna's Savage X Fenty show this week. What's the connection between fashion and your music?

I feel like I would not be who I was if the music didn't match the way I dress. [Giggles.] I feel like the music has to match your style ... I don't know, it doesn't have to. Look at J. Cole. J. Cole doesn't really go deep into that fashion sh*t. But his music is crazy, and it's a great reflection of him. But for me, my fashion is out there with big-ass boots, crazy eyeliner, leather, spikes. You listen to my music and that's what will probably be in the room if you were laying in the bed with me. [Laughts.].

I think [fashion is] a mirror almost, and I've used it like that. I've used it like a real-life mirror of how I'm feeling. Because sometimes I dress super hardcore, and some days I dress in dresses and I just look like a girly-girl, a whole lot of pink. Fashion is just one of those things that, honestly, the first thing that made feel accepted in any industry ever. 'Cause music was a little hesitant. I remember music was like, "OK, we like her. It's cool." But fashion was really like, "Oh my God, hop out." I made a lot of friends in fashion and a lot of people that keep me inspired.

Read: Leikeli47 On Honest Storytelling, Performing With A Mask, 'Acrylic' & More | Up Close & Personal

You mentioned spikes and leather, which makes me think about punk rock fashion. You've been called a rock star, a punk rock princess, a pop-punk princess. There are mosh pits at your shows. What's your relationship with rock and punk?

I am a fan of rock and punk music, but I feel like I'm really a fan of rap music. I'm a rapper, and I've used those other references, like rock, to blend with rap music. I feel like people kinda ignore that a little bit, but I love rap music. I always tell my manager and my friends, whenever they say stuff like that—it's been so many different titles for me that they're going to have to come up with my own word at this point ... There's punk, there's rock, there's hardcore.

I don't think there's anything ... It's just getting inspired from things that I've heard growing up. I might make a song that sound like that ... It's the voice and the cadence, I get, could be the rock stuff. But also, there's a lot of rockers that have had that crazy-ass voice. Obviously, the beats draw them in and that's what sticks in their head, like, "OK, she raps on this hard." There's a lot of music that people have fallen in love with that don't have anything to do with rock.

Do you believe in genres? Do you see them as an inspiration or a barrier?

I feel like genres definitely are needed ... But I don't know. This new generation, of course, we are just so obsessed with everything being our own and we being the creators of everything. I call my music "Sugar Trap." That's what I've always called it.

What is Sugar Trap?

You have the soft, beautiful, flowy vibes, melodic, but then you also have trap music like Chicago drill music, Atlanta trap music, Memphis trap music, little bit of California trap music. I mix everything. If the sound catches my ear, I mix it. So when we talk about rock, I just remember, when I made that song, I was listening to a lot of rock. I felt very alone and very alienated, so I made music to reflect that. That's why we get songs like "Rage."

Talking about rock, you've mentioned Joan Jett as a major inspiration to your music and your career. In many ways, you are now on that opposite end where you're inspiring a younger generation of rappers, artists and fans. Do you feel the weight of responsibility as a role model to your fans?

Nah, because I feel more of a weight or responsibility to be a role model towards my son. Just as long as I'm a good person to him, that's what really matters to me. Fans going to like what they like. I know some songs they don't like from me; they're allowed to feel that way. I just feel like, where I think my son is different, because they they always grow with me.

As far as the younger generation looking up to me, too, however they're inspired by me, I just want them to understand that they're their own person and they're going to live their own life. And though there might be a lot of situations that resemble one another, there's a lot of choices they're going to have to make that I ain't had to make, and things they going have to do that I ain't have to do. And they just going to have to respect the hustle. It's hard to get where I am. It's gonna be hard to get wherever they get. That's still weird having people look up to me because I take my pants off one leg at a time, and I'm just a regular person.

Your dad, who was a rapper, introduced you to hip-hop. Are you doing the same for your son? Are you introducing him to your music or rap or any other genres?

He be in the studio with me. He go places with me. He knows, he watch my music videos. He listens to his own stuff, though. It's very important that he's his own person, too, 'cause he's one-of-a-kind just by watching him make his own decisions. He listens to Aminé and Post Malone. His music choice is kinda cute. Justin Timberlake, too; he likes Justin Timberlake a lot.

But you know, he don't really listen to my stuff. He's around, he sees it. He was there for some video shoots. He was there for the "Countin Up" video shoot in New York. He's there for a lot of stuff; he's just behind the scenes, though. I definitely try to incorporate him in my life, but I ain't going to force it. He doesn't have to like music.

We are having a major cultural moment in hip-hop: Women are dominating rap, a genre that's always been very male-driven. You have Cardi B and Megan Thee Stallion on top. Does it feel like we're in a new era where women are the new leaders in rap?

Yeah. It's kinda weird watching it become what it is become. This is what the next 10 years is going to look like. I feel like people like women's music more. [Laughs.] I don't know how to say that. A woman's voice, it is what it is. Whether it's rap or whatever it is, the confidence that women give other women, it's unmatched ... I feel like the world needs women's music to heal as well. The early 2000s had so much women's music and girls were so powerful, and the world just felt better. I'm praying for that.

There's a lot of momentum happening for women rappers right now. Where would you like it to go and what needs to happen to take it there?

Well, it's already in a great direction. Obviously, I would wish that people would stop being so judgemental. But it's one of those things where, just like everything else, if you just put it in their face enough, they'll get the point. They'll get it. They'll care. Just like there's a lot of male rappers who talk about certain things, and people just get their point. That's their life. That's what they do. Just give it, like I said, five years and it'll be what it is ... This is the new era of music: women rapping.

In order to make it happen, we just need ... I don't even know what to say. Women already supporting each other. We already cool. We already text each other when great sh*t happens for one another and we're like, "Oh my God, that's crazy!" We are all watching this unfold.

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Tchami

Tchami

Photo: Anthony Ghnassia

 
 
News

Tchami Talks Debut Album 'Year Zero,' New Single "Faith" And Producing Lady Gaga's 'Chromatica'

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GRAMMY.com caught up with the Parisian DJ/producer to talk about how he experimented in the studio on 'Year Zero,' Lady Gaga's fearless approach to music and his ongoing chase to "master the alchemy of making great records"
John Ochoa
GRAMMYs
Sep 29, 2020 - 6:27 pm

Tchami might be having the best year ever, and in 2020 no less. Over the last decade, he's performed at some of the biggest festivals in the world, amassed hundreds of millions of online streams and launched the future house genre. This year, the Parisian DJ/producer upped the ante: As one of the featured producer's on Lady Gaga's latest hit album, Chromatica, he's put his magic touch on one of the year's biggest pop releases. 

After first working with Gaga on "Applause," the lead single from her 2013 album, ARTPOP, the pop queen once again tapped Tchami for Chromatica. He co-produced four of the album's tracks, including lead single "Stupid Love" and mega radio hit "Rain on Me" with Ariana Grande. 

"The vibe in the studio was open," Tchami said of the creative process behind Chromatica. "[In] the end, I was just happy to be there and come back when my help was needed."

As the overwhelming success of his earworm tracks continues to build, Tchami is closing out the year with the release of his forthcoming debut album, Year Zero. Set to release later this year, the album is an "illustration of where I am right now as an artist and also as a human," he explains. 

So far, Tchami has rolled out five singles off Year Zero, including his latest, "Faith," released Sept. 25. The up-tempo house track centers on a haunting sample from legendary soul-jazz singer Marlena Shaw's 1969 song, "Woman of the Ghetto," a stark portrait of Black life in America during the tumultuous decade. 

"There is a fascinating aspect about sampling in the way that you're able to bring something from the past and its aesthetics into a new time and place," Tchami says of the distinctive sample driving "Faith."

GRAMMY.com caught up with Tchami to talk about how he experimented in the studio on Year Zero, Lady Gaga's fearless approach to music and his ongoing chase to "master the alchemy of making great records."

Your new single, "Faith," samples Marlena Shaw's 1969 song, "Woman of The Ghetto." How did you discover the sample in the first place?

About two years ago, during the first studio session for the album, DJ Snake came to me with this idea to sample "Woman of the Ghetto" by Marlena Shaw. I made the first sketches around the a cappella that we extracted from the original version. The creation process around it was really similar to doing a remix.

What drew you to the sample for this specific song? What made you want to use it for "Faith"?

In the early 2000s, I was buying a lot of vinyl records in France. It could be any type of genre, and as far as I can remember, I always liked to incorporate samples in my music. There are ups and downs due to clearances, but it's definitely not new to me. There is a fascinating aspect about sampling in the way that you're able to bring something from the past and its aesthetics into a new time and place. Again, nothing new here, but that's my thinking behind all my sample choices. 

I called it "Faith" to punctuate Marlena Shaw's powerful message in her original song. I don't write lyrics at all, even if I try to, and, like many others, my words often fail to express my intentions. That's why I mainly choose to stick to the musical side to express myself; I have found just that in electronic music. I can't hide the fact that I have been touched by records with a powerful message in my life and I wanted my first album to represent that as well.

Read: Record Store Recs: Chicago House Hero Marshall Jefferson On Representation In Dance Music 

You're releasing your debut album, Year Zero, later this year. How do you plan to make the album stand out from your previous releases and projects? 

I surely went deeper in my sonic explorations, tested new BPMs and song structures. I also wanted to be in a studio creating with songwriters. Since I mainly make music from home, I wanted to shake [up] my creative process a little bit. We had some wonderful moments during these sessions. If I have an obsession in life, it's definitely knowing enough about making a record from scratch, alone or with other people in the room. Everyone's energy is important and I pay attention to everyone. 

The main reason for this album to exist is that I wanted to challenge myself. At some point, I was asking myself, "What's next for you Tchami?" Another EP? Countless singles? [There's] nothing wrong with that, but the challenge wasn't there. And as a listener, I just love the album format. But the main wall I kept hitting was, "How are you going to keep the listener engaged through the whole album?" Well, I guess I'll have the answer soon enough.

The term "year zero" carries a lot of different meanings and definitions. For instance, it's used to describe "the beginning of revolutionary change" or "the beginning of any new system or regime." What does Year Zero mean exactly in the world of Tchami?

I think Year Zero is a good photograph/illustration of where I am right now as an artist and also as a human. I have lost family members during the making of the album, I had to terminate some friendships that were unhealthy. Those who know me know that I can be too agreeable most of the time because I believe in people's vision and want to help them achieve it. The cost is putting myself aside. I also think this is a good reason why I'm a good asset in the studio for other artists. But all this led to an inner revolution that started with the Tchami project and continues with this album. 

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy healthy collaborations; that's what this LP is about. Music is a therapy for me before being a job. I am also conscious that the title can resonate in other ways, especially during these times, and I can't stop people [from thinking of] it. Once the album is out it's up for debate and interpretation. It's meant to be shared, experienced, and maybe be a part of you for some time.

You co-produced several tracks off Lady Gaga's new album, Chromatica. How did that opportunity come about for you?

[GRAMMY-nominated producer] BloodPop and I were introduced to each other by a mutual friend, as simple as that. I think he wanted to work with other electronic music producers to shape the Chromatica [album] with him and Lady Gaga, so I'm glad I was one of them. 

Beyond the fact that this is an exciting project to work on, the vibe in the studio was open, and as far as I know, I had full latitude to work on every song of the album. [In] the end, I was just happy to be there and come back when my help was needed.

Have you always been a fan of Lady Gaga's music? Or is this a more recent development?

What I like the most about her is the big picture she paints, not only with her music, but with all her artistic and aesthetic choices. It always makes sense. She is not afraid to challenge herself in other music genres and makes it look effortless. I think it's powerful not to let people put you in a specific box; if you want to do something else, you should be proud and praised, too. 

Read: Jayda G Talks New EP, Promoting Diversity In Dance Music & Sharing Joy 

Lady Gaga has always kept one foot in the pop world and one foot on the dance floor. For example, electronic artists like David Guetta, DJ Snake, Infected Mushroom, Zedd and Madeon have produced for her. Does this dance-pop crossover make it easier or harder for your individual sounds and styles to come together when producing for Gaga or a similar artist?

Unless I'm asked to, I never try to bring the Tchami sound forward when I work on somebody else's project. Bringing my best game means sometimes getting Tchami out of the way because we're trying to write a whole other story. I make all kinds of music in my studio that never sees the light of day, so working on other projects is always an opportunity to surprise people. Maybe the most important thing isn't the sound signature, but the creative process and being able to co-create something unique each time.

Do you have plans to continue experimenting and producing in the pop world? Are there any other genres you're interested in exploring or experimenting with as a producer or artist?

Pop music is a vast world, plus it is one of my guilty pleasures. So why not? I'm interested in other genres, too; maybe [working] with live instruments a bit more. I'm also deeply invested in the mixing and mastering aspects of a record. I think it's one of the key reasons why a record is satisfying to one's ear and potentially timeless. [More so] than genres, I'd like to master the alchemy of making great records.  

Your label, Confession, has helped globalize several breakout electronic artists, including Malaa. What's the label working on for the remainder of 2020 and going into 2021?

2020 is definitely a year we take to reflect on the label's direction. We will continue to give a voice and a platform to emerging artists, but also to initiate and engage more in collaborative efforts such as new compilations and live events. 

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ARASHI

ARASHI

Photo Courtesy of J Storm

News

J-Pop Legends ARASHI Talk New Single "Whenever You Call," Working With Bruno Mars And The Exploding Asian Entertainment Industry

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ARASHI's Jun Matsumoto tells GRAMMY.com about the group's expansion into the U.S. and Western markets and the "mini-reinventions" that have evolved the band for more than 20 years
John Ochoa
GRAMMYs
Sep 25, 2020 - 12:00 am

In their native homeland of Japan, ARASHI are chart-topping, stadium-headlining, genre-defining pop stars. Counting more than 50 No. 1 singles on the Japanese charts and millions upon millions of albums sold worldwide, the J-pop legends are one of the country's biggest and best-selling artists of all time. After conquering the Land of the Rising Sun time and time again, the group is now setting it sights on the West. 

In August, ARASHI released "IN THE SUMMER," the band's debut single with U.S. audiences and the first track they are actively working in the American market in their two-decade-long career together. The track, produced by superproducer Rami (Lady Gaga, Ariana Grande, Selena Gomez, Britney Spears), follows another significant first for the group: In late 2019, ARASHI launched their first-ever official YouTube channel and social media accounts—a full 20 years after they first formed in 1999. 

So why now?

"The decision to enter the U.S. market was really a byproduct of just the overall evolution of … the group getting involved in digital," original ARASHI member Jun Matsumoto tells GRAMMY.com via a video call from Tokyo. "As you may or may not know, physical CDs still sell extremely well in Japan … But the thing is, we have seen that things are starting to change, and it's part of how we want to make sure that even in the future, when even Japanese people are no longer listening to CDs as much, we want to make sure that our legacy [as ARASHI] stays with our fans, and people are able to enjoy our music years in the future when nobody listens to CDs. That seems to be more and more—the idea of leaving a digital legacy behind." 

"IN THE SUMMER" is part of a series of strategic moves and releases that sees ARASHI expanding their musical footprint across international borders. 

Next up: The group's latest single, "Whenever You Call," released earlier this month, is ARASHI's full-on blitz into Western markets. Produced by Bruno Mars, the song is also the band's first single sung entirely in English.

A soaring pop ballad about the cosmic power of love and connection, "Whenever You Call," which comes ahead of the group's forthcoming hiatus at the end of this year, has taken a new meaning in the COVID-19 era, Matsumoto says.

"While this was certainly not planned originally, I actually am really touched by the fact that ... not only is it a song for us and the story of us going on hiatus, saying that we'll still be with our fans," Matsumoto says, "but [it] also really speaks to what is happening right now—the fact that people aren't able to get together, people aren't able to meet, family is not able to come together for important celebrations, etcetera, due to what COVID is doing to everybody.

"So the song actually really speaks well to people who are stuck in those situations that, no matter what, there is a way to transcend those barriers, transcend physical distance, transcend racial divides and all of the things that are troubling people around the world. The spirit of togetherness and the spirit of being willing to actually come together is something that is universal. I'm very happy that the song can actually help communicate that message to people—not just in Japan, but around the world."

GRAMMY.com spoke with ARASHI's Jun Matsumoto about the group's expansion into the U.S. and Western markets, the exploding Asian entertainment scene around the world and the "mini-reinventions" that have evolved the band for more than 20 years. 

This interview was edited for clarity and brevity. An interpreter translated all answers from Jun Matsumoto.

Your recent song, "IN THE SUMMER," marked your debut with U.S. audiences. How has the reaction been so far? Are your Japanese fans and U.S. fans reacting similarly or differently to the track?

The Japanese fans and the American fans have both had really positive reactions so far, at least from what we've noticed. We've been able to see these sorts of things [by reading] as many of the comments on our YouTube channel and our Instagram pages as we can, both the ones that are posted in Japanese and in English. One of the things that's really inspiring, actually, is that in these divisive times, people can all come together to just enjoy music and enjoy fun performances and that sort of thing. And it's really inspiring that these sorts of entertainment contents can bring people together in this way. It's really struck us that despite our differences, all people are really the same, and that's something that's really inspiring in this day and age.

I love that. So speaking about online comments, you launched the band's official social media channels for the first time ever last year—20 years into your career as a group. Why now? Do you feel like you missed out on the conversation by not "being online" all those years?

I don't feel that we've lost really anything. Cultural differences being what they are, we were able to do a lot in the span of time [when] we didn't really have any participation in social media, and not just us, but a lot of the other people who were represented by [Japanese talent agency Johnny & Associates]. So there was so much that we were able to do in the sense of actual physical connections with people and actually bringing a value to things that are not digital, to the point that there wasn't really any sense of loss by not having [social media]. Now that we are on this, it's a sense of just being able to do so much more than what we were able to do before, but in the sense of just our overall growth and evolution as a group.

"IN THE SUMMER" is the first time you're actively working a single in the U.S. during your 20-year career. Why did you decide to enter the U.S. market now?

The decision to enter the U.S. market was really a byproduct of just the overall evolution of what I mentioned before about the group getting involved in digital. As you may or may not know, physical CDs still sell extremely well in Japan. And it's part of the overall culture that not only us, but a lot of Japanese artists have to really deliver something of perceived value to their fans, kind of like delivering presents; the idea of something physical, having value, having something special and really making sure that it has lots of fun elements and really special features and that sort of thing, to really make sure that there's a sense of enjoyment in the product as well as the experience of listening to the music.

But the thing is, we have seen that things are starting to change, and it's part of how we want to make sure that even in the future, when even Japanese people are no longer listening to CDs as much, we want to make sure that our legacy [as ARASHI] stays with our fans, and people are able to enjoy our music years in the future when nobody listens to CDs. That seems to be more and more—the idea of leaving a digital legacy behind. Not only was that the impetus of opening our digital channels, which obviously then opened up the idea of how other countries and other markets around the world are consuming music, and the value that digital has in order to enjoy good music around the world, including but not limited to the United States.

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In 2019, we were actually permitted to attend the GRAMMY Awards ceremony. What was really, really striking to us was the fact that there were artists who were winning GRAMMY awards and who had never actually sold a CD before, that the GRAMMYs were being evaluated now based on streams and that people were really enjoying in massive, massive numbers the music of people who were putting digital first. That really spoke to us in a way that in order to really make sure that our music is heard and enjoyed and that people who want to listen to us, but maybe don't have the resources for CDs or aren't in markets where CDs are as common can still actually partake and enjoy ARASHI's music. 

I want to give thanks and a shout-out to the GRAMMYs for having awoken that sort of awareness in us and really held us towards all that's happened and all that we've been able to do this year.

Why did you choose "IN THE SUMMER" as your debut U.S. single? What is it about this track that you thought would speak to U.S. audiences and international audiences at large?

The idea of our debut U.S. single probably should be counted a little bit earlier than ["IN THE SUMMER."] Last year, corresponding to the [launch] of our digital channels, we released a song that did really, really well called "Turning Up." And since then, we've actually remixed a lot of our classic songs with the help of major mix artists and other American stars in order to give our songs that have been such hits in Japan a little bit more of a Western flavor, all of which have been posted to our YouTube channel.

But for "IN THE SUMMER" specifically, this was actually a mixed blessing in a sense. Because even before we opened our digital channels, we had been to Los Angeles and actually met [producer] Rami and really liked what he was able to do for other super-popular U.S. artists; we wanted to be able to work with him in order to help bridge the cultural gap, so to speak, between [us] having grown up in J-pop and then wanting to maybe appeal to a broader global audience.

Rami was very enthusiastic with the idea, and so we collaborated on this. Then of course, due to everything that has happened in this year, it's been really nice to have a little bit of a fun, lighthearted summer song in order to help people take their minds off of everything else that is going on in 2020 …

Based on all the experience we've had, not only with "Turning Up" as well as the other Reborn series remixes for our other songs, we've been able to actually continue that evolution of being able to feel out what works for more Western audiences and from a Western tastes perspective; that's something that's been really fun to work on.

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What does the group want to gain or learn from entering the U.S. market so actively?

Originally, the ultimate goal would be [for us] to actually try to see the United States and maybe do a concert there or something like that, just to be able to take our music on the road. We've had such a vibrant and long and successful career here in Japan, and having the awareness, especially having opened the social channels, just to the level of our popularity outside of the islands of Japan—we were really looking forward to the opportunity to actually see those fans and actually share our music directly with them in the way that we would having a concert here.

Unfortunately, 2020 being what it is, that hasn't really been able to happen. But nonetheless, we have had a lot of fun still working with major U.S. musicians, such as Rami with "IN THE SUMMER" [and] Bruno Mars with "Whenever You Call," and being able to actually collaborate with such global personalities to be able to cross the borders, per se, still, even though we can't actually be there physically [and] be able to help spread our music and still be able to enable our fans to have something of our music in this year, especially with everything else going on.

Speaking of your new track, "Whenever You Call," when and where did the group record the song?

We were able to record [the song] last month. Originally, the plan was to actually go to Los Angeles and record at Bruno's studio directly with him. But unfortunately, due to COVID-19, those plans fell through. But instead, despite the fact that we still managed to record the song here in Japan at our own studios, we were able to share the song with him and get his support and advice and direction through the various recordings that we did. He was very kind to be able to give some of the advice and support and fine-tune the song based on his deep and thorough knowledge of what we were able to bring to the song and the vision that he had that we would be able to bring to the song that was the inspiration of why he wrote the song in the first place.

What is "Whenever You Call" about? What does the song mean to the group?

When I first heard it, I was actually a little surprised. Based on my own personal fandom of Bruno … my image of what Bruno was all about [and] what Bruno would be able to bring to the table—when we actually heard the first song as a medium ballad sort of style, I was actually quite surprised. But the more that I heard it, the more that I felt this actually spoke to Bruno's skill to be able to really capture ARASHI's image, and also what this particular year means to not only us but also our fans, especially given that at the end of this year, we're going to be going on hiatus.

The idea [within the song] really spoke to me, that this song is really a perfect way to close out the year. The theme ... [that] despite the distance and no matter what may seem, we and our fans are always going to be connected, that we as a group will always be connected. I have a lot of admiration for what Bruno was able to foresee in terms of what the song would actually become and how it would be a perfect fit for what ARASHI was doing in this year.

The song itself really shows how much Bruno is aware. Not only did Bruno, before writing the song, know that we were going on hiatus, but also he clearly had seen a lot of our performances, had listened to a lot of our music, and was able to tailor his own skills ... to what would be good for ARASHI and what would be really enjoyed by our fans. I definitely can't thank Bruno enough for everything that he did in putting the song together and really lending his own skills to one of our last songs for 2020.

While this was certainly not planned originally, I actually am really touched by the fact that ... not only is it a song for us and the story of us going on hiatus, saying that we'll still be with our fans, but [it] also really speaks to what is happening right now—the fact that people aren't able to get together, people aren't able to meet, family is not able to come together for important celebrations, etcetera, due to what COVID is doing to everybody.

So the song actually really speaks well to people who are stuck in those situations that, no matter what, there is a way to transcend those barriers, transcend physical distance, transcend racial divides and all of the things that are troubling people around the world. The spirit of togetherness and the spirit of being willing to actually come together is something that is universal. I'm very happy that the song can actually help communicate that message to people—not just in Japan, but around the world.

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With films like Parasite and groups like BTS catching major attention and support in the U.S. and across the world, K-pop and Korean music and pop culture have become true global cultural phenomena. In your experience, has this growth in K-pop increased or impacted the popularity of J-pop? Are you seeing new fans discovering your music and J-pop music and culture through their exploration of K-pop?

I don't really feel that there's necessarily a level of influence that K-pop is having on J-pop, per se. I mean, obviously I listen to K-pop and have been really impressed by certain groups' level of skills, both [in] music and dance. But the thing is, more so than what specifically is happening now, I've really been almost inspired by being part of the legacy that has led to all of that. Being represented by Johnny & Associates—[founder and talent manager] Johnny [Kitagawa] has been producing boy bands that have danced and sang for over 50 years. 

It's actually more touching that the legacy of everything that Johnny built up within the Asian entertainment scene is now taking off in other spaces as well. Not just Korea, but also around the world, people are all able to enjoy the kinds of things that, really, Johnny set in motion. It makes me very proud to have been part of that legacy and to see it continuing beyond. [There's] not really any sort of influence or rivalry between [J-pop and K-pop], but rather being connected to the overall whole that I can feel and see personally having been raised in this organization.

Last year, ARASHI celebrated its 20-year anniversary together as a band. How have you kept your interest in music alive throughout the years? What keeps you coming back, either as a group or an individual artist, year after year throughout the decades?

We've been doing this for now going on over 20 years. Despite the fact that it might seem [like] a routine by now, and doing "the same thing every year," one of the things that has really kept us going and really helped our adaption and evolution throughout this time has been the idea of just always trying to give our audience and our fans something new. Every year, we go through a mini-reinvention of sorts in order to ensure that not only are we staying fresh and relevant, but we're reacting to what new fans want and what the changing tastes of our fans are going to really adapt to. 

Entering into the 21st year [as a group], what we just want to be able to do is really make some kind of music that can really transcend barriers of all types, whether it be reaching outside from Japan to the world, or from traditional to digital, or those sorts of transcendental elements to being able to actually create something new and really be able to touch people in new and exciting ways despite having done this for so long. It's really something that has taken the forefront focus of recent years, especially this year.

In an interview with The World, your bandmate Sho Sakurai spoke about the group's evolution from a "boy band" to a "man band" throughout the decades. Do you evaluate and adapt the ARASHI sound as the group and its individual members get older? How does age impact your music — what you sing about, what you write about, what you want your music to sound like?

For me, as I've gotten older and as the years start to pass by, what I've really been able to do is just get more out of my own experience and enjoyment of music. The melodies and the phrases that are used in various songs start to actually mean more just based on all of the experiences that I've had in my life and being able to put together different experiences that I've had in order to get more out of the experience of listening to music.

This really speaks to just what we as a group really want to be able to do ... what we've seen our music mean to so many legions of Japanese fans. We want to be able to pass that experience on to a new audience, a new generation of people, and really leave our mark behind in terms of everything that has meant so much to us, everything that has meant so much to our fans, and being able to allow for other people to be able to enjoy that as well; [that] has been really at the forefront of what we want to do with whatever comes next.

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