Frank Zappa in 'Zappa,' a Magnolia Pictures release

Frank Zappa in Zappa, a Magnolia Pictures release

Photo: Roelof Kiers/Photo courtesy of Magnolia Pictures

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Actor/Director Alex Winter Talks New Frank Zappa Documentary, 'Zappa': "It Was The Full Complexity Of The Man I Wanted To Show"

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For the film, Winter and his team combed through more than 1,000 hours of footage to capture the complicated essence of one of the most groundbreaking rock experimentalists
Jordan Blum
GRAMMYs
Dec 30, 2020 - 12:13 pm

Few 20th-century musicians have amassed as unique and influential a catalog as two-time GRAMMY winner Frank Zappa. Between the late 1960s and the early 1990s, Zappa's multifaceted artistry knew no bounds. He was a one-of-a-kind musical genius whose attitude and approach rubbed off on countless creative followers.

Of course, he was far more than that, too. As the recent documentary Zappa lays out, the singer/songwriter and composer was an adamant denouncer of censorship, which led to him morally testifying before the U.S. Senate in 1985, as well as a fearless critic of social, spiritual, and political hypocrisies. Plus, his collaborators and loved ones knew him as a highly demanding yet devoted bandleader and a flawed but loving family man.

There were many professional and personal dimensions of Zappa, and the actor-documentarian Alex Winter—best-known as the amiable, peace-loving goofball Ted Logan in the Bill & Ted film franchise—did an exceptional job capturing it all. Zappa, which arrived in theaters and on-demand last month, provides the most heartfelt and robust examination of the man on film to date.

Winter and his crew could have been overwhelmed by the sheer amount of footage available to them—more than 1,000 hours, to hear him tell it. However, his goal to spin a compelling yarn for a universal audience rather than create a footage-dump for superfans kept him focused.  "It was important for us to tell a certain story," Winter tells GRAMMY.com. "We found so much great stuff that [spoke] to his inner life. It motivated us to stay on track."

GRAMMY.com spoke with Winter about what sparked his interest in telling Zappa's story and why Zappa's legacy endures almost 30 years after his untimely death.

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.

Let's begin by discussing how you discovered Zappa. What are your favorite songs or albums by him?

I first became aware of him on Saturday Night Live. I have an older brother [Stephen] who's a musician, so I knew the music. As I got older, I became much more appreciative of his music, especially the expansiveness of it. That fact that he wasn't just a rock guitar player or even just a rock musician.

As for specific records, [1969's] Hot Rats had the biggest impact on me, and then I came to love his orchestral music, such as [1993's] The Yellow Shark.

Those are great ones! What attracted you to making this documentary?

I was interested in who he was as an artist and his relationship to his art, his fellow artists, and the politics of the time. It was the full complexity of the man I wanted to show—more than just a standard music documentary or a standard cradle-to-grave biopic.

That's one of the best aspects of Zappa: it even appeals to people who aren't necessarily fans of his. There's a lot of pathos to it, with sadness beneath the happier aspects.

Yeah, I mean, his life was tragic in that he died so prematurely [in 1993, from prostate cancer]. He faced the consequences for living as he did, and the film tries to chart the ups and downs of his life in that way. It's not just a celebration but also an examination of what it means to be an artist.

Read: How 1970 Became The Year Of Syd Barrett

You also interviewed former Zappa musicians who express that he was a bit of a tough leader at times, but that's what was needed to get the band to perform properly.

Right. I wanted to get at the root of what was—not unfairly, but maybe superficially, a reputation he had for being a martinet. I had a suspicion that the artists I would speak to would paint a more comprehensive picture of how he was. 

I was so grateful for those interviews and for having a sense of a man who had a very specific vision, yes, but who also was extremely collaborative with his fellow musicians, with his family, and with his audience. He was very curious about a broader view and working with others.

I didn't have a problem getting to people, either, and I only wanted people I felt were able to speak vehemently about having worked with Zappa and experiencing his inner life.

Zappa is far from your first documentary. What did you learn from doing those prior films that influenced this one? How was making Zappa a different process?

There was an aspect of this far beyond anything I'd done before: the sheer amount of media that we had to work with. We had to preserve a lot of the media that was in Zappa's home. Then, we had to go through all that media [laughs] and figure out what we wanted to use.

We benefited from doing a preservation project to get that media into shape, which took us a couple of years. It allowed us to figure out exactly what to choose. I think that at least 98 percent of the archival footage we used has never been seen or heard before.

Oh, wow.

There was an exhaustive process of rebuilding things to make them coherent. Sometimes, we'd find a piece a film from one time and then search for the right sound and sync it up somehow. Some of that took years, and it was like finding the Holy Grail when we finally located the proper audio for a piece of visual that we wanted to use. It's been an extraordinary journey, to put it mildly [laughs].

From what I understand, the Zappa family—and especially his late wife, Gail—were very private and particular about who would get access to the archives, vaults, et cetera. I'm sure other people have tried to see and hear those things before but couldn't. I wonder what led to you being able to look through all of that.

Well, I pitched Gail a way of telling the story, and she just happened to like it. Many people had come to her asking to make much more standard music docs or legacy docs about Frank, sort of ignoring the broader spectrum of who he was and what he represented.

I was only interested in telling a story about him as an artist and as a man pitted against his time, dealing with the consequences of committing to living a particular life. That's what she wanted someone to tell. I didn't know that when I pitched her, so I was glad. I expected her to tell me to get lost, to be honest with you.

I guess it's all about the angle of the story.

She was notoriously a tough cookie, and I knew that going in. There was a good chance that she wasn't going to like what I wanted to do. That would've been fine. It would've been twenty minutes out of my life instead of six years.

Frank Zappa in 'Zappa,' a Magnolia Pictures release

Frank Zappa in Zappa, a Magnolia Pictures release | Photo: Roelof Kiers/Photo courtesy of Magnolia Pictures

What were some of the most surprising things that you learned about him? What did you have to cut?

We had the mandate to tell a very specific story, and that gave us parameters. It helped us weed out the stuff that didn't fit. We had over 1,000 hours of unseen and unheard media; we could've made a 10-part series, no problem. I wasn't distracted by it, though. Mike Nichols, the editor, and I were pretty determined to craft a very coherent narrative, so we didn't worry about many of the media we had. Let it get used by the next people who come along. [Laughs].

Have you discovered any bands that are inspired by Zappa?

Oh, there are so many, from classical musicians to pop and rock musicians. Artists like Beck, “Weird Al" Yankovic and Weezer. The list could just go on and on. There aren't too many popular bands who don't have a Zappa influence, even if they don't know it. Also, a lot of avant-garde composers.

Zappa had one of the most successful Kickstarter campaigns in history. How has the reception been so far?

The reaction has been overwhelmingly positive. It's a film that I wanted to see out in the world, and I believe that Zappa's story was extraordinary and untold. I was hopeful that others would want to see it, too.

I was never a fanatic—more just a fan. This movie is aimed at anyone who likes an interesting and compelling story. That was the gamble we took when we set out to make it, and I couldn't be happier with how it's being received. 

Director John McDermott Talks New Jimi Hendrix Documentary, 'Music, Money, Madness … Jimi Hendrix in Maui'

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Johnny Flynn as David Bowie in Gabriel Range's 'STARDUST'

Johnny Flynn as David Bowie in Gabriel Range's STARDUST

Photo Courtesy of IFC Films. An IFC Films Release.

 
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Marc Maron And Johnny Flynn On Why 'Stardust' Is A Cinematic Space Oddity, Not A David Bowie Biopic

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One of the most interesting music films of the year, 'Stardust' has zero aspirations to embody the big Bowie biopic daydream, instead offering an intriguing, arty interpretation of an era that ultimately helped shape the sound and style of Ziggy Stardust
Lina Lecaro
GRAMMYs
Dec 30, 2020 - 3:49 pm

The hunger for a David Bowie biopic has intensified in the four years since the icon's death and in the wake of the breakout box office success of music films like Bohemian Rhapsody and Rocketman. But despite its perfect title and marketing that might suggest otherwise, Stardust had zero aspirations to embody the big Bowie biopic daydream. 

Released last month (Nov. 25) on multiple streaming platforms, Stardust is an intriguing, somewhat arty interpretation encompassing a short but influential window of time before Bowie broke big. The film follows a young Bowie, played by British musician/actor Johnny Flynn, in his pre-Ziggy, boho-rock days. Aided by Ron Oberman, played by comic and podcast king Marc Maron, the record company PR guy tasked with promoting the singer in the U.S. at the start of his career, Bowie takes an ill-fated press trip to America in 1971 that ultimately helps shape the sound and style of one of music's most revered figures: Ziggy Stardust.

Despite a disclaimer that states "what follows is (mostly) fiction" at the start of Stardust, the film's basic premise is based on true facts. Bowie did have to stay with the real Oberman and his family in Maryland before embarking on a bare-bones road trip to promote his music, and due to visa problems, the singer was not able to play any substantial venues or even play his own music during the tour. He was clearly struggling with some identity issues as an artist before he evolved into the Starman, and as depicted in the film, his relationship with his overbearing wife, Angie (Jena Malone), became more and more strained as he grew as an artist, fleshing out his flamboyant, cosmic persona and music.  

While Stardust is indeed a music film, the music logistics for the movie were no easy road. Last February, Bowie's son, Duncan Jones, announced on Twitter that he and his family would not authorize the use of his dad's music for the film. Consequently, fans quickly denounced the project. But the film's writer/director, Gabriel Range, had very specific intentions, and music wasn't necessarily essential to explore them. 

"He didn't want to give us the music, but that's great because it provided us more freedom," Maron said during a joint interview with Flynn before the release of Stardust. "We couldn't afford it anyway. The idea that we can't interpret this moment in David Bowie's life out of respect is ridiculous. David was a public figure who contributed so much to artistic innovation, to creativity in his work, and it's been out there in the world for 50 years. This idea that it's off-limits by any means to express interpretation of this man is ridiculous. They are protecting the brand more than they are protecting the person."

For his part, Flynn, who in the film sings covers Bowie often played live and does a glammy new song he wrote for Stardust called "Good Ol' Jane," didn't take the lead role lightly. 

"He's a big hero to me in lots of ways," he explained. "I passed on an earlier version of the script because I thought this is not a story that needs to be out there; it was more like the jukebox musicals that we've seen out there recently."

Flynn, an acclaimed musician in his own right and a promising actor, reconsidered when Range, working alongside writer Christopher Bell, came on board and took the film in a new direction. 

"He knew Bowie really well and he said, 'We just want to look at this tiny, tiny moment of his life," the actor explained. "I went to see the “David Bowie Is" exhibition in Brooklyn, and I was walking around the exhibit. It was so interesting. He was desperate to escape this sense of mediocrity and what he thought of as banality. [Range is] always looking for interesting truths about situations that change people's opinions of what a certain time might have been. We took things step by step, and it felt right at every step. This is such a small film and it doesn't negate or tread on the toes of a big, estate-backed film about Bowie. This can exist, too."

Indeed, it can. What's explored in Stardust would have probably taken about 10 minutes in a traditional biopic. Though its limited scope and intimate approach is far from the grandiose, glam-rock affair some might have hoped for, the film has many endearing moments music fans, if not the hardcore Bowie base awaiting a blockbuster life exploration, can enjoy. There's a nice chemistry between the two leads, for one, and in many ways, the film is a classic buddy flick/road trip, quasi-comedy featuring two opposites coming together and learning from each other. 

David Bowie's '…Ziggy Stardust…' | For The Record

Of course, the monumental undertaking of tackling a beloved and legendary figure like Bowie on film is a big risk for any actor or creative. The haters were not silent. 

Naysayers pointed to Flynn's lack of facial resemblance to Bowie, but the actor wasn't going for a gauche impersonation. 

"I tried on the wig, then we tried some songs and some scenes, just to see how we could get on with that. And each step that we took just felt like encouragement to move to the next," Flynn said of playing Bowie in the film. "I didn't know if the story we were trying to tell would work, but it felt right. And this era is the only David that I would have been happy with portraying."  

Read: "Space Oddity": 7 Facts About David Bowie's Cosmic Ballad | GRAMMY Hall Of Fame

Rock movies are often in danger of coming off as corny or cliche. Stardust, and the cast and creative team behind it, mostly avoided this by keeping the narrative ambitions specific and the acting fairly measured. 

As for the fan community and their critiques of the film, Maron is pragmatic. "I dealt with that with the Marvel idiots when I did Joker, too," he shared. "The nature of fanaticism and the idea of fans and that kind of religious dogma that goes around what they think is honoring their 'God' is really problematic in terms of moving art forward in a lot of ways."

Flynn, on the other hand, took the feedback as an indicator of Bowie's impact and lasting legacy.

"What made all the reactions interesting to me is the fact that [Bowie is] such an influence, and he's a different person to everybody," the actor added. "For Marc, it was the Scary Monsters era. For me, I discovered him during like "Space Oddity" and the early stuff, but mixed in with Ziggy and Hunky Dory, which is probably my favorite album. I think that makes it worthwhile to examine who this person was. It is fascinating, in terms of cancel culture and people saying, 'You can't touch that.' [But] I'm happy that there's a dialog around it and somebody who is such a beacon of liberal expression and artistic freedom."

David Bowie's '…Ziggy Stardust…' | For The Record

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Beastie Boys

Mike Diamond, Adam Yauch and Adam Horovitz in 1993 from an archival photo used in 'Beastie Boys Story' on Apple TV+

Courtesy Photo: Apple TV+

 
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Beastie Boys' Ad-Rock And Mike D, Spike Jonze Talk Growing Up In New Documentary 'Beastie Boys Story'

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The two surviving members of the GRAMMY-winning hip-hop trio, alongside the film's director, discuss how the new documentary reflects their growth and evolution as a band, as friends and as men
Lina Lecaro
GRAMMYs
Apr 24, 2020 - 10:56 am

Promoting their new documentary, Beastie Boys Story, premiering today (April 24) on Apple TV+, the two surviving members of GRAMMY-winning hip-hop trio Beastie Boys, Adam "Ad-Rock" Horovitz and Michael "Mike D" Diamond, alongside the film's director and the group's longtime collaborator and friend, Spike Jonze, participated in a Zoom round-table video interview with select journalists earlier this week to talk about the project.

These pandemic times have affected every aspect of life as we know it, particularly when it comes to how we communicate with each other, and nowhere is this more evident than within the realms of entertainment and media. On TV, news anchors and talk show hosts broadcast from their kitchens and basements, reflecting many of our own work environments, while meetings of all kinds take place via video conferencing apps, providing a new semblance of personal exchange and connection. The Beastie Boys Zoom experience was no exception. 

While the question-and-answer conversation was structured and moderated, it provided some loose moments, offering glimpses of each artist's homelife—Horovitz rested his head on a bed pillow for most of the interview—and exchanges of laughs and love.

The same could be said of the doc itself, which features Diamond and Horovitz live onstage during last year's theater book tour for their GRAMMY-nominated, career-chronicling 2018 tome, "Beastie Boys Book." It's been almost 35 years since the New York-bred band began making music. The new documentary shares their decades-long story in a scripted yet personal, TED-Talks-style presentation, backdropped by old photos and video footage taken throughout their career.

Beastie Boys Story eschews the conventional talking-head documentary format and lets the guys share and reminisce in their own way about their development, crediting in large part producers Russell Simmons and Rick Rubin, their maturing perspectives and, most significantly, their late bandmate, Adam "MCA" Yauch, who died of cancer in 2012. The film offers an insightful and at times bittersweet look at how Yauch, who originally formed and named the group, used his artistic and activist vision to help transcend the group from its raucous rap and rock revelry of their youth to become sonic innovators and cultural icons.

The Recording Academy joined Diamond, Horovitz and Jonze, alongside a group of fellow writers and journalists, on a video conference call to discuss how Beastie Boys Story captures the group's growth and evolution—as a band, as friends and as men.

This interview includes questions and comments from writers and contributors not associated with the Recording Academy.

Journalist: It's interesting to see the two of you look back at your lives and admit your mistakes and have interaction with Spike Jonze. Who came up with the concept [for the film]?

Michael "Mike D" Diamond (founding member of Beastie Boys): It sort of evolved over time. We had the "Beastie Boys Book," and when that came out, we were faced with the idea [of], "What are we supposed to do now, go out and do some book readings and feel kinda lame?" So with [director] Spike [Jonze], [we came up] with this idea to do more of a performance. We were trying to tell our story, give a sense of the arc of time [in which] the story takes place. But it was tricky. The book is 500-something pages, and we didn't expect people to sit in their seats to deal with us for much more than two hours. Adam and I got together to write, and then Spike would be at the run-throughs and we'd rewrite things. We did those shows in New York, Brooklyn, Los Angeles, San Francisco, London, and toured it around a little bit. Of course, when we got to the end, we were like, "Hmm … we should've filmed that." So we took a little break, then we started to rewrite the show with the idea of filming it and getting more of the story down: How we as a band have always worked and how we've always worked with Spike, is just all of us getting together and a lot of ideas coming and sort of implementing them on the fly.

Spike Jonze (GRAMMY-winning director and filmmaker who directed Beastie Boys Story): It's like we threw as many different chairs and umbrellas and photos and records and doves up in the air, and then we just saw how many we could catch.

Journalist: One thing that struck me from the doc is the moment when Mike D says, "It could've been any three white guys from Def Jam's position." It struck me as odd. What would make you say that?

Mike D: In that moment, looking back at it, when Rick Rubin introduced us to Russell Simmons, Russell saw this thing in us that we didn't see in ourselves. He saw this ability … he was like, "These guys love rap music and they're going to make rap records and I can take that to an audience and I'm gonna get them on the covers of magazines." Honestly, at the time, it was a struggle for Russell, in terms of like rap being this very underground, alternative culture that he was trying to bust into the mainstream. I think he just saw us as an important part of that program. So to clarify, it could've been us or it could've been a couple other dudes. That's what Russell's mission was. And Rick's mission was he just wanted to make great records.

Adam "Ad-Rock" Horovitz (longtime member of Beastie Boys): Also, we were terrible. We were really bad when we were just starting out. So it's not like [Simmons] found this undiscovered gem, like these guys that could really rap or really play guitar or whatever the thing was. We were really bad.

Jonze: They're talking about when they started out, when they were 16-17 and doing Run-DMC rhymes together in their bedrooms, not so much when they were making their first record and finding their voice.

Beastie Boys

Adam Horovitz and Mike Diamond in Beastie Boys Story, on Apple TV+ | Courtesy Photo: Apple TV+

Journalist: When you go back and watch this film, were there things that surprised you that came up, or about the way that the audience responded?

Horovitz: There were definitely times seeing the pictures, even though we knew what was coming and what was going to be on the screen; it was really nice. It was surprising how I wanted to just pause on those moments and take the picture and the memory in.  

Journalist: Did you ever believe that you were going to be one of the biggest rap acts [ever]?

Horovitz That wasn't anything that we thought about, really. We come from a punk rock background. It wasn't like, "We're going to make it one day." It was like, day to day, is it going to be fun? So it was wild when people started buying our first record and we started playing bigger shows. It wasn't part of our plan, but it was f*ckin' cool.

Journalist: In the documentary, you talked about writing [the Beastie Boys' 1986 hit single] "Fight For Your Right" as a way to mock bro culture. But you confessed that, in a sense, you became those guys. How did you pull yourselves out of that?

Diamond: We were in my apartment in West Village in New York City, and we don't have any bro dudes in our circle, so it seemed like a really funny thing to make fun of. We didn't have this vision of, "We're gonna make it big." So we do this song that's kind of a goof. Then we go on tour and those dudes are in the front row, and you kind of go with it because you're getting applauded … Then after a bit, it's like, "Whoa, wait a second. The world we came from is so not that world." And we missed who we were in that world. Because we had a falling out with Def Jam, it brought us back to the three of us and we got to take a break and look at each other and be like, "OK, what do we want to do?"

Read: The Beastie Boys Provide A License To Party

Horovitz: It's like if you get the extra large bag of Frito chips and you start eating them and you're like, '"Whoa, these taste really good." Then you're like, "They're really salty and they're making me feel bad," but you keep eating them and eating them. Then when you're done with the bag, you're like, "Wow, I'm never gonna eat another f*cking Frito again."

Jonze: That's a poignant metaphor.

The Recording Academy: I love how the documentary showed the evolution of the band and how you tackled more politics and social ideas over the years. Obviously, Adam [Yauch] became very involved in activism, and the band reflected that. If the Beastie Boys were still making music now, how would they tackle the world and Donald Trump and today's issues?

Horovitz: Donald Trump is so awful I don't even want to give him space in my brain. He's awful … not even funny-awful.

Jonze: If you [search] YouTube [for] "MTV Awards Beastie Boys Woodstock," there's a clip of Adam—this is [in] 1999 or so, when it was extra-not-cool to be political—and they go onstage right after Woodstock happened.

Read: Why Can't Anyone Get Woodstock Right? 15 Of The Original Fest's Performers Weigh In

Adam Horowitz goes up and talks about how appalling what happened was: the lack of security, that bands need to step up and push to have better security and look out for women at these festivals and these shows. He's basically urging all the artists to take it seriously. There were no other artists talking about that at the time. I mean, it was really moving … I was just watching it at home and it was not popular.

Diamond: We weren't supported in the room. It wasn't like everyone was like, "Oh yes, finally someone's saying it!" It was basically us saying, "We all need to talk about this because it's happening." But it was this thing that nobody wanted to talk about because no one wanted to admit that it was happening.

The Recording Academy: Sounds like sort of a pre-#MeToo thing. You recognized that within concert culture, these things were happening. So you might have continued down that path, perhaps? Speaking out about these things?

Horovitz: Yeah, absolutely. Honestly, it was, for me at least, just being around Adam Yauch—him just saying the things that he did and taking stands that he did publicly. It was inspiring for me to be like, "Oh, you can make fart jokes and actually also care about people?" And respect your place in the public, that you have a platform to say things and people will listen—whether they give a sh*t or not, I don't know. He was always really inspiring, like, "Oh, wow. If Yauch can do it, I can do it."

Journalist: One of the things I loved about Yauch was the fact that he could look back at ways he behaved in the past and apologize for it and say, "I was wrong, I was stupid." How do you explain the [early] Licensed To Ill years to your kids?

Diamond: Being a father of teenagers, I don't know how I first explained it, but I was really happy that they got to travel with me a bunch while I was doing these shows, because this is going to happen to all of us. We are all going to have these actions that we're ultimately not proud of and we're all going to have situations in our lives that we could've handled better. We're so grateful. Here I am with my best friends, Adam and Spike, and we get to talk about that.

Journalist: What do you hope people watching [the documentary] take away or learn about you guys or your journey?

Jonze: I liked the idea of trying to represent everything I love about them and their band. And I love the idea of just the people that were in the car, on the road trip, telling the story. We don't have anyone else talking about the band from a cultural perspective. I wanted to really just capture the way they create and the spirit in which they're a band and their friendship. Not many bands that have been together that long are actually great friends through the whole thing; it feels like a lot of times when a band gets older, they're in a band together almost as a business. And I feel like nothing that these guys ever did was about that. It would be, first and foremost, about what the three of them wanted to do. So I hope [the film] just captures their love for each other [and] their friendship.

Billy Joel to Beastie Boys: 9 New York album covers

Jimi Hendrix

Jimi Hendrix

Photo: Daniel Teheney/Authentic Hendrix LLC

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Director John McDermott Talks New Jimi Hendrix Documentary, 'Music, Money, Madness … Jimi Hendrix in Maui'

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Ahead of an exclusive premiere of the film this week, presented as part of the GRAMMY Museum's COLLECTION:live programming, GRAMMY.com caught up with McDermott to discuss how the documentary continues Hendrix's lasting legacy
David McPherson
GRAMMYs
Nov 16, 2020 - 5:45 pm

Jimi Hendrix accomplished more in five years than most artists achieve in a lifetime. Songs like "Hey Joe," "Purple Haze" and "Voodoo Child" are classic rock staples. His innovation on the electric guitar influenced generations. He's responsible for seminal moments now emblazoned in the annals of rock: the time he set his axe ablaze at the Monterey Pop Festival or the time he played an instrumental version of "The Star-Spangled Banner" on a Sunday morning coming down at Woodstock. In the late 1960s, Hendrix was also the pensive leader of America's counterculture movement. 

The Seattle-born musician left us far too soon. On Sept. 18, 1970, the 27-year-old died at the bohemian Samarkand Hotel in Notting Hill, England. The cause: asphyxia while intoxicated with barbiturates. Fortunately for fans, old and new, Hendrix left a cache of unreleased music. Now, thanks to archivist John McDermott and the Experience Hendrix family-run company, his lost music allows us to discover another untold chapter in the life of this mercurial musician. 

The new narrative: the backstory on the making of Rainbow Bridge, a bizarre and controversial independent movie released in 1971. Directed by Warhol acolyte Chuck Wein, the project was financed by a $500,000 advance from Reprise Records, with the promise of a Hendrix soundtrack. 

In his new documentary, Music, Money, Madness … Jimi Hendrix in Maui, McDermott attempts to set the record straight about this boondoggle. The feature-length film, which drops Nov. 20, includes never-before-released original footage and new interviews with those who were there. (Live In Maui, a two-CD/three-LP package that includes the free Maui concert at the foot of the Haleakalā volcano on July 30, 1970, in its entirety, arrives the same day.) 

On Wednesday (Nov. 18), the GRAMMY Museum will host an exclusive premiere of Music, Money, Madness as part of its COLLECTION:live programming. The event will also include a live panel discussion featuring some of Hendrix's closest family members and associates, including younger sister Janie Hendrix, former bassist Billy Cox, engineer Eddie Kramer and McDermott.

Ahead of the premiere, GRAMMY.com caught up with director John McDermott to discuss his personal Hendrix history, his insights on Music, Money, Madness … Jimi Hendrix in Maui, and why, 50 years on, the groundbreaking electric guitarist's music still resonates.

Before we talk about the documentary, I'm curious how you landed this dream job as "keeper of the Hendrix vault" in the first place.

In the late 1980s, I was working as a writer, producer and a director on various music projects. I was always fascinated by the Hendrix story. I had previously written about him for a major music magazine, and that opened up a friendship with Hendrix engineer Eddie Kramer. From there, we worked on a book together, Hendrix: Setting The Record Straight, which came out in 1992. It was not a traditional biography. We presented Jimi through the eyes of those closest to him. 

The idea of a tribute album came next [Stone Free: A Tribute to Jimi Hendrix]. Released in 1993, the record featured artists like Seal, Buddy Guy and Eric Clapton. Some proceeds went to a United Negro College Fund scholarship fund created in Jimi's name. 

Shortly after, Eddie heard Jimi's father [James Al Hendrix] was involved in litigation over the ownership of his son's legacy, including the rights to Jimi's music, name and likeness. The Hendrix family asked me to help. Eventually, Al was victorious and all rights were returned to the Hendrix estate. That's when Al asked me to manage Jimi's music catalog. It's hard to believe that was 25 years ago. Since our first archival releases of unreleased Hendrix music in 1997, our mission has remained the same: keep Jimi in front of as many fans as possible. As a fan myself, I only came to truly appreciate Hendrix after his death … I never saw him live. For me, he was always this extraordinary artist with a fascinating story.

Speaking of fascinating stories, Music, Money, Madness … Jimi Hendrix in Maui certainly fits the bill. It's a captivating tale of a strange yet seminal time for the Jimi Hendrix Experience.
What makes this show so fascinating is its uniqueness. Three weeks before he was playing to 500,000 [people] at the second Atlanta International Pop Festival. Then, he arrives on Maui to play for 700 people seated by astrological order at the side of a volcano … that was something only Jimi could do.

Why did you decide to tell the story of the making of Rainbow Bridge and the Jimi Hendrix Experience's Maui sojourn in the summer of 1970?

We've told the arc of Jimi's story before: from birth to death in Jimi Hendrix: Voodoo Child [2010]. In other archival releases, we've examined temporal moments such as the Monterey Pop Festival and Woodstock. 

The Maui performance is always one fans request the most. With this film, we wanted to drill down and recalibrate what this whole thing represented. If we were going to do it, we wanted to do it in a way that provided the context for this story and share all of what exists of film—using the complete concert performance at Haleakalā to tell the real story. Rainbow Bridge was clearly not a Jimi Hendrix project, but it only could have taken the form it did with him dying. Had he lived, it never would have taken this form. Maybe it might have been just an instrumental score for a surfing documentary … no one really knows. 

Since Jimi died in September, less than two months following these concerts, the Rainbow Bridge movie and accompanying soundtrack played a larger role in Jimi's initial posthumous legacy. With this movie, we want to reframe that story.

How did you reframe the story to specifically focus more on Jimi's story and the free Haleakalā concert? 

First, we recovered original footage from Jimi's time in Maui. This documentary was more about extracting that new footage and providing fresh context. In Rainbow Bridge, there [were] only 17 minutes of performance footage that was haphazardly put in the movie. Mitch [Mitchell] had to overdub his drums at Electric Lady Studios just to save the audio. 

Read: Jimi Hendrix's 'Electric Ladyland' Turns 50

At the same time, you wanted to present an objective story, correct? How did you achieve this balance?
Definitely. You get the Hendrix side of the story listening to new interviews with surviving bandmates Mitchell and Billy Cox; Warner Bros. record executives; his engineer, Eddie Kramer; and others close to Jimi. We chatted with some of the original participants in the movie and included interview clips with [Rainbow Bridge director] Chuck Wein to tell their side. 

Fans need to understand how this chapter in Hendrix's career became blown up because of his death. To hear his bandmates talk about that time in Maui … that fascination that attracted me decades ago happens anew for kids around the world who appreciate the phenomena that was Jimi Hendrix. Take the Beatles film Eight Days A Week. Those who lived through that understand about the girls screaming at their shows—the tsunami and energy about the creation of that music—but that movie showed a new generation of global audiences what The Beatles really meant. In the same way, you can't fathom how amazing Jimi was until you see, hear and learn more about him. 

Why now? Did you plan the film's release to coincide with the 50th anniversary of Hendrix's death?

Not at all. Restoring the footage and the original audio took time. This is a project we had on the broiler for quite a while. We wanted to take time to get it right and speak to the right people. There is a temptation sometimes to get the easiest folks to speak, but often these people don't shed the greatest light on a subject. Originally, we had hoped to screen it at the Maui Film Festival this past June, but because of the pandemic, that didn't happen.

Why, a half-century since the electric guitar innovator and Recording Academy Lifetime Achievement Award recipient died, is the Hendrix legacy still important to preserve?
First, Jimi alone keeps his legacy alive. He is the guy who does the heavy lifting. Why is his legacy still so important? Compare it to what people would give to hear just one more wire recording from Robert Johnson. Because Jimi died so young, he left so many questions unanswered. Every one of these projects we release is another clue to that puzzle, from both a sonic and a visual perspective. Hendrix's appeal [resonates] with young people and remains with original fans. They, along with a growing global audience, see him as an ongoing touchstone: No matter the country where they are from, their gender, their race or their age … something about Jimi cuts right through.

'Band Of Gypsys': 5 Facts About Jimi Hendrix's Final Living Release | GRAMMY Hall Of Fame

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Harry Chapin

Harry Chapin

Photo: Courtesy of artist

News

'Harry Chapin: When In Doubt, Do Something' Filmmakers Rick Korn & Jason Chapin Revisit Singer/Activist's Legacy At A Vital Time

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The new documentary looks at the life of the late GRAMMY-nominated folk singer and how his message of hope and making a difference resonates so strongly today
Ana Monroy Yglesias
GRAMMYs
Oct 21, 2020 - 3:40 pm

In 1972, not long after signing to Elektra, a 29-year-old folk singer/songwriter named Harry Chapin released his debut album, Heads & Tales, spawning the hit single "Taxi." Later that year, he'd release his sophomore album, Sniper & Other Love Songs, and receive his first GRAMMY nomination, for Best New Artist at the 15th GRAMMY Awards.

Just two years later, in 1974, the Brooklynite released his fourth album, Verities & Balderdash, along with his most well-known song and only No. 1, the deeply moving "Cat's in the Cradle." The memorable track also brought his second GRAMMY nomination, for Best Male Pop Vocal Performance at the 17th GRAMMY Awards.

Almost as quickly as Chapin rose to global fame, he began using his platform to make a difference in the world. With nudging and support from his wife Sandy Chapin, he and radio DJ Bill Ayers founded WhyHunger in 1975 to address the root causes of food insecurity and poverty. The "Shooting Star" singer, who died at just 38 in car accident, would spend the rest of his time on earth hosting and playing benefit concerts, mentoring rising artists, advocating in D.C. and raising money and awareness to fight hunger.

Now, with the release of Harry Chapin: When In Doubt, Do Something on Oct. 16, World Food Day, viewers get a deep dive into the inspirational man behind the music, along with the message that one person really can move make a difference when they put their mind to it. We recently spoke to the documentary's director, Rick Korn, and co-producer/Harry Chapin's stepson, Jason Chapin, about the film, what the great folk artist's legacy means to them and much more.

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Harry Chapin, When In Doubt, Do Something comes out soon, on October 16. What messages do you hope viewers will get from watching it?

Korn: Well, there are two messages with Harry's story. The most important thing is about his activism, his music, his way to really inspire generations of music artists, of people like myself. I think the most important thing for people to get out of this is it's a break from the craziness of what's going on in the world around us, it's a 93-minute escape into Harry's world, which is just so entertaining and inspiring. I hope that people look at it from that perspective. I know people that have seen the film have walked away from it thoroughly entertained and thoroughly inspired. That's what we hope people get out of the film.

Chapin: I'll add that my father's been gone for a long time, but over his 10-year career, he accomplished a lot musically. His music continues to be listened to by younger generations, which is great, but the humanitarian side, starting WhyHunger in 1975 and Long Island Cares in 1980 and being involved in a lot of other important causes and organizations, is also big. It's amazing that those organizations have grown so much and continue to help, literally, hundreds of thousands of people each year. If you think about today, hunger and poverty is a much bigger issue now, but, fortunately, because of my father's work and many organizations fighting against it, there's a lot being done.

The takeaway, I'm hoping, for those that see the movie, is that it's one individual who was motivated to do something, who inspired many others to continue to support what he did, but they also are doing great things on their own. It's really inspirational to know that one person can make a difference.

Related: Darius Rucker To Receive Harry Chapin Humanitarian Award At Music Biz 2019

I feel like that answers this question a bit, but I still want to ask it this way. Why did you decide to make a documentary about Harry Chapin?

Korn: Harry was unique in a lot of different ways, and if this was a story about another music artist that focused on their vices and the destruction of their lives, we would not have been interested in making the film. What interests us about Harry is his prolific creativity and his ability to literally move people, to save people. What really blew our minds when we did our research on Harry was he was so incredibly effective in fighting for the underdog.

He could write a protest song and you can do a benefit concert, but Harry was more than that. He literally got his hands dirty doing the work, and figured out what the root causes of hunger and poverty are and attacked them in every way. He spent a good portion of the most vital 10 years of his life just trying to help people, and that is unique in the world, particularly in the world today. That's why we made the film. We made the film because I think the world needs a little bit of Harry today.

Chapin: One thing I'll add, maybe it's not known to a lot of people, but my father was a successful filmmaker before he became a successful musician. I think film helped him really understand stories better and made him a much better songwriter. It's also just amazing, so many years later, when Rick and S.A. Baron [who co-produced the film with Korn and Chapin] asked if we would be interested in a documentary, it was special to me because there had never been interest in a film about him. They saw a different subject matter that others didn't.

Also, it's just the right time, because there's so much going on that my father was passionate about and committed to, and, as Rick said, there's so much negativity out there, but this is the right film at the right time.

Why do you feel like it's so important to share this story and these messages now?

Korn: I don't want to say we rushed it because we didn't, but we really worked hard getting this film out now because of all the divisiveness in the world. Harry's story is unique from any other music artist because he really inspired a generation of music artists. You look at Bruce Springsteen and Billy Joel, Bob Geldof and Ken Kragen, all these people that created Live Aid and "We Are the World"/U.S.A for Africa and Hands Across America. Harry inspired these people in that way, and his music, on top of that, was just so moving and so incredible.

I want to follow up on something that Jason said about him being a filmmaker. One of the things that surprised me when we did our research, was that he was a filmmaker, and not only that, but an Academy Award-nominated filmmaker and documentarian, but we learned that was the way Harry wrote songs. It's very similar to the way a director writes a film. His songs are these mini movies. His storytelling feels like you're the character, one of those two people in the taxi in the song, "Taxi." And you always feel like the parent in "Cat's in the Cradle." He and Sandy just had a way of making songs that you find yourself in, and that's the brilliant part of his songwriting.

Explore: It's The One: 45 Years Of Bruce Springsteen's 'Born To Run'

Do you have a favorite story or anecdote from any of the artists you talked to while making the film?

Chapin: I was at the Billy Joel interview and he told us a lot of things that I didn't know. I learned that he opened for my father and years later, my father opened for him, and they had a nice friendship, and supported each other. And Billy Joel started talking about how people would think that "Piano Man" was written by my father, and he really loved the way my father wrote songs, and he was describing how much he loved the song "Taxi" and how it gave him goosebumps. And then he was talking about my father as a humanitarian, and he called him a saint. I think that was probably my favorite experience with this whole project.

Korn: Yeah, the Billy Joel interview was certainly a great one because I didn't realize how close Billy and Harry were, just on a human level. The reason for that, I think, was the fact that Harry treated everyone like your kid brother. The fact that he would support Billy, which was so rare in the music business then, and even now, it just broke down whatever barrier or competition they normally would have with each other. That surprised me.

My favorite interview—there's so many, because after each interview, you love everybody that you interviewed because they loved Harry. You can't make a movie just with that one interview, but the two that stand out for me is DMC [a.k.a. Darryl McDaniels of Run-DMC], because he taught us something we didn't know about, how he did "Cat's in the Cradle" [on 2006's "Just Like Me" with Sarah McLachlan] and they were one of the first rap groups. The fact that Harry was considered cool in the early days of hip-hop music blew my mind. He's a great guy. He's done so much for WhyHunger over the years, and he's just a really genuine guy, so I really loved that interview.

I have to say that the most entertaining interview for me that maybe I've ever done was Sir Bob Geldof, which ended up being a two-and-a-half-hour interview when my average interview is about 45 minutes. I literally asked two questions in the entire interview. He just went on and on and on. He would come back and say something about Harry, but then he would go on.

They all loved Harry. Harry changed their lives, just as he did mine. Harry came to my high school in 1974. Everyone in the school, teachers, coaches, janitor, everyone came into the auditorium, and he came running in and played for two and a half hours and talked about hunger and poverty, and it was the greatest lecture you ever went to in your life. It was inspirational.

Read: From Aretha Franklin To Public Enemy, Here's How Artists Have Amplified Social Justice Movements Through Music

What does his legacy mean to you?

Chapin: When I think of his legacy, I think of all the people that my father looked up to, and one of them was Pete Seeger, and I think he saw that Pete was doing great things over many years. He was completely selfless and hugely impactful. As I look at my father's legacy, it's the fact that so many fans can tell stories about meeting him after a concert in the lobby, so many fans talk about how they shared his music with their kids, and now grandkids, and the fact that he started these organizations and that continued to grow and help more people each year.

I think the overall, in terms of his legacy—he even says in the film that he wanted to matter. That's another way of saying he didn't want to be forgotten. The fact that people are still talking about him, people are still inspired by him is just amazing.

Korn: I'd like to tag on to that. When I think of Harry's legacy, obviously he was a great songwriter. Music is important, and his music is important, but when I think of Harry's legacy, I think of what is going on right now with this pandemic and the fact that what he and [N.Y.C. radio DJ] Bill Ayres and Sandy Chapin created in 1975—and Sandy and Bill are still at it—is still saving lives today. That is a legacy that is larger than life.

Can you talk a little more about WhyHunger's work and why specifically the issue of access to healthy food was so important to Harry?

Chapin: I think what's important to understand is that it was my mother who really nudged my father and said, "You should get involved in more things, not just do music." My father was interviewed by Bill Ayres on his radio show, "On This Rock," and they had instant chemistry. They started talking, with my mother at some of their meetings, they decided that they wanted to focus on something that would really have a big impact on a lot of people. They did a lot of research. They talked to a lot of experts, and they realized hunger and poverty was at the root of all of our issues, and if they tackled that, that could solve so many of our problems. They continued to educate themselves and talk to experts. They spent a lot of time down in D.C. talking to legislators, and they were really committed to being knowledgeable and informed and getting other people to understand.

I think what my father knew is that if you tackle hunger and poverty, you're also tackling social injustice, you're tackling women's issues, you're tackling racial issues, you're tackling so many root issues, and so I think it was very insightful for them to talk about that. It wasn't just about giving people food.

My father was very into being self-sufficient, so he wanted people to have access to education and work to become self-sufficient. At the same time, I think he wanted people to understand that people don't choose to be hungry or poor, that there were certain policies that were put upon them that created a lot of the problems, a lot of the barriers that they faced.           

I think it's also important to say that the fact that we still have a problem doesn't mean that we're losing the war. It just means that there are more people that need to get involved in order to solve the problem. WhyHunger's job is not to solve the problem, it's to help other people it, so it's a very grassroots focus. They do a lot of work with groups around the country and internationally to help support what they're doing and connect them to other organizations so that they can realize their potential and do even more great work.

What do you each see as the connection between art and service?

Korn: Art is service in a certain way. We have a livestream docu-concert coming out called Do Something and there's an artist participating by the name of Raye Zaragoza. Raye is a young artist/activist. She's Native American and she's all about the environment and has devoted her life to it. She doesn't just write the songs. An artist/activist is someone, in my opinion, who doesn't just write and perform great music, but as Harry taught us, they get their hands dirty.

If you care about the pipeline going through South Dakota and the reservations, you're going to go to protests. You're in Washington. You're writing motivational songs. It doesn't mean you have to write motivational songs, because Harry didn't have many protest songs, but he understood his nature and human feelings and empathy, and he had tremendous empathy. I think that's the connection, that's what makes an artist an artist/activist.

Chapin: Yeah, and my father and my uncle Tom [Chapin] did a lot of benefit concerts, and I know they had a lot of conversations. My father was always fascinated with Pete Seeger's philosophy about being an activist, getting involved, and he said it was because he got to work with great people, people who were very passionate and committed. My father and Pete Seeger and others, I think they were getting more out of the experience than they were giving to the experience, and it made their lives richer.

My father, he spent a lot of time in high schools, middle schools and colleges talking to young people. He always felt that young people were the future, and he wanted to know what they cared about, what they were interested in doing, and to encourage them to get involved. It didn't have to be hunger and poverty, but just get involved, to commit to something. It was all about letting them know that they could make a difference.

Lastly, a lot of musicians, I think, tend to be a little bit self-centered, but my father was very generous when it came to other musicians. He used to do these songwriting workshops where he would spend time with a group of up-and-coming musicians, those who wanted to learn more about songwriting and composing music. My father had these regular meetings with different musicians on Long Island. I think the musicians who attended really enjoyed the experience of learning from my father, but my father also enjoyed the experience of hearing what they were thinking and collaborating with them. I think that was also very rewarding for him.

Read: From Chicago To Sister Rosetta Tharpe, Here's Who Was Honored At The 2020 GRAMMY Salute To Music Legends

It becomes so much more than the artist saying, "I care about this, you should too." When it's like, "I really care about this. What do you care about?" it feels different.

Chapin: Yeah. I think it's a beautiful community when musicians collaborate and they do things together. I think that really attracted my father's interest, he just loved other communities, whether it was other artists or not. He was really into a lot of intellectual stuff. He did a lot of reading. He was intellectually very curious, and I think he also liked learning from other people and finding out what motivated them and what inspired them. I think that gave him a lot of, I don't know, excitement just to be around people who were very eager and action-oriented.

Do you think art can change the world?

Korn: You know, I think that music is, by its very nature, a healer. I'm not saying it can cure cancer, but it can help cure cancer. Maybe that's an overstatement. I just mean it that it's got that power. People get moved by music. I was working with a gentleman by the name of Carl Perkins, who wrote the song, "Blue Suede Shoes." We were flying over to London [in 1997] to do a benefit concert with Paul McCartney and Eric Clapton and a bunch of people, and for the island of Montserrat after a volcano eruption. I asked, "Why is it that it seems like music artists are always the first ones to jump in and do benefit concerts?"

Carl's response was, "Did you ever meet a great songwriter that didn't grow up poor or have some sort of difficulties in their life? They just tend to be more empathetic towards the common man. They write about it." From that standpoint, I don't know if they can save the world, but I think Harry in a lot of ways has saved lives, and I guess that's your answer. [Chuckles.]

Chapin: Yeah, that was well said, Rick. I can't think of anything else that brings people together more than music. It's a universal thing, and once you bring people together and there's somebody who plants a seed as to something they should all work toward or work on together, then anything is possible. We know, going back decades, whether it was Bob Dylan, Pete Seeger, the Beatles and their Concert for Bangladesh, or Live Aid or "We Are the World," we know when groups come together, anything is possible. They may not be solving all the world's problems, but they can certainly make a huge difference.

It's so true. I have to share, my dad grew up in Brooklyn Heights and went to Grace Church, so he knew all the Chapins. The first concert I ever went to was Tom Chapin—my dad took us to his shows all the time when we were kids.

Chapin: I'm so glad you shared that because that's where everything happened, at Grace Church. That's where my uncles Tom and Steve were in the choir. My father was a little older, so he wasn't as involved, but that's also where they met Robert Lamm from Chicago. John Wallace was also a member of the choir, and he ended up being a key part of my father's band. That was such a magical time back then, because there were so many musicians and they would all go into Manhattan and play at the different clubs and community events. Everybody wanted to be a musician or go listen to musicians. Brooklyn now is still—that's the hot borough in New York City. That's where the musicians want to live, and that's where they want to perform. It's a fabulous tradition.

Great to hear that you've been to some of my uncle Tom's shows. I don't know if you're aware, but my father had two GRAMMY nominations, but Tom won three GRAMMYs, so that's fun family history.

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