Black Coffee

Black Coffee

Photo: Alari Teede

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Black Coffee On New Album, 'Subconsciously': "Music Is Life To Me And I Want You To Feel That With Every Beat And Melody"

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"That's what music should do, it should divide barriers and unite us under this one universal language," the South African DJ and producer says of his new album, 'Subconsciously'
Ana Monroy Yglesias
GRAMMYs
Feb 4, 2021 - 1:29 pm

If you have yet to immerse yourself in Black Coffee's captivating, atmospheric beats, now's a perfect time. The South African DJ and producer's emotive sixth album, and first in five years, Subconsciously, drops tomorrow, Fri., Feb. 5, on Ultra. To craft the enchanting soundscapes therein, Black Coffee tapped a diverse, talented group of collaborators, including vocalists Usher, Sabrina Claudio, Celeste and more, and fellow producers David Guetta, Diplo, DJ Angelo and Pharrell Williams (who also provides vocals on "10 Missed Calls").

Black Coffee has been big in the international house music scene since 2013. That year, he won bingo on the DJ bucket list, playing spots like Berghain in Berlin, Amsterdam Dance Event, Circoloco in Ibiza and his first Boiler Room set. In 2017, while he was busy bringing joy to dancefloors around the world, he made waves in the mainstream with his standout feature on Drake's More Life. "Get It Together" featuring Jorja Smith is a remake of Black Coffee's 2007 track "Superman," its pulsating beat traversing decades and borders.

The Drake spotlight led the talented producer to "Get It Together" in the studio with other heavy-hitters like Diddy, Akon, Usher and Pharrell and to where he is today. Subconsciously is a culmination of Black Coffee's two-plus decades refining and redefining his sound, limitless beyond borders and genres, yet rooted in his South African identity—he's never too big to work with fellow artists from his home country.

Ahead of his exciting new album, GRAMMY.com caught up with the "Wish You Were Here" artist over email to dive deeper into the project and its collaborators, as well as what representing South Africa means to him.

What does your new album Subconsciously represent to you? What was your creative vision for this project?

When jumping into this new project, I wanted to remind the world that we're not confined by genres. As an artist, that's a value I hold very close to me. I create music that I can connect with, that provokes a certain emotion.

That's what music should do, it should divide barriers and unite us under this one universal language—and that's exactly what I wanted to do with Subconsciously. My artistic touch will always be defined by my music, but I want to break barriers and convey a global message, not just on dancefloors. This album goes way beyond. 

Read: Record Store Recs: Producer Bongo ByTheWay Shares The Music Of His Mind

There are a lot great collabs on the project—how did you choose who to work with on this one?

There are different processes for making every song and so I didn't go into this album thinking that I had to work with a particular artist. As the music evolved, we played around with many different elements. Sometimes a particular voice just meshes well with the direction of my production and it works. Other times, we're pitched a vocal and I adapt my music to make it feel right. These different processes sort of create an equal playing field for collaborators. 

What is your favorite part about working with other artists? And what do you feel like is one of the more challenging elements of collaborating?

Sometimes, you've put your heart and soul into a particular song and you feel there's nothing else that can be done, but then you add another creative on board and the song is elevated to a place that you couldn't have imagined before. Every vocalist, producer or writer can add a certain key element that changes the whole dynamic of the music and I think that's the real beauty in collaborating. I wouldn't say there are challenges, only creative motivation!

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When you released "LaLaLa" with Usher in 2019, had you already finished the album? For you, in what ways did this track feel like a shift into new sonic territory?

Back when I released this single, the album hadn't been 100 percent completed. The general tracklist had been outlined, but we were still going in and adding finishing touches to make it what it is today. The creative process and journey in making this album spanned over a couple of years.

For me, it wasn't necessarily a shift, but rather a gateway to spreading the joy of different sounds and reminding people that one particular musical way of thinking isn't superior to another. To me, if a song can evoke emotion and power, it's already done its job.

The music I am producing is oftentimes very different than the music that I DJ. I create music that you can blast on your car speakers or clean your home to. I create feel-good music that can universally bring us together. It's all about that feeling. 

"To me, if a song can evoke emotion and power, it's already done its job."

As a whole, Subconsciously is very captivating and immersive, and it definitely has a bit of a chilled out and moody vibe. How would you describe the mood and the feeling of it?

Every time I listen to Subconsciously, I have a new favorite song. That's what makes this album unique. There's something for every mood; it evokes a lot of emotion. You have the deeper sounds of "You Need Me" [featuring Maxine Ashley and Sun-El Musician] or "Ready For You" [featuring Celeste], upwards to the more poppy side of the spectrum with songs like "Never Gonna Forget" [featuring Diplo and Elderbrook].

What do you hope your fans will experience while listening to the album?

I hope that it brings anyone who's listening from anywhere in the world joy. That's what the music is all about for me. I've been working on and evolving my sound for pretty much my entire life. Music is life to me and I want you to feel that with every beat and melody. 

What does it mean to you to represent South Africa across the globe? What is a misconception people often have about your home country?

My South African roots are something extremely important to me. I want to bring South Africa to the world. The talent emerging from my country is growing by the day and being able to collaborate with outstanding artists like Sun-El Musician, Tellaman, Una Rams, Msaki and C-Tea, to name a few, means I'm taking the sounds of South Africa one step further on the global spectrum. It's such an honor to be able to carry the flag on a more global spectrum.

When people from outside the country or even further, the continent, think of South Africa, they have a very cut-and-paste conception, but it goes so far beyond that. My country is home to some of the most incredible musicians, artists and great minds, even beyond the obvious household names. Our culture is vibrant and booming and I'm so proud to call it home. 

Do you have your eyes on any rising African artists right now?

It's hard to pinpoint any one particular artist right now, as there is so much emerging talent. In the music world, there's Da Africa Deep, in the visual world, there's Ghariokwu Lemi, but these are just two of so many. I could go on for days and the scope is constantly changing and evolving.

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Charlotte de Witte

Charlotte de Witte

Photo: Marie Wynants

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DJ Charlotte De Witte Talks Exploring New Sounds In Belgium Lockdown, Her Rise To The Top & Sexism In The Industry

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"I never would have dreamed of being where I am now. I mean, no one can fully grasp what has happened," the Belgian DJ/techno producer said
Ana Monroy Yglesias
GRAMMYs
Jan 27, 2021 - 4:34 pm

At 28 years old, Belgium-born DJ/producer Charlotte de Witte has firmly established her place as techno royalty. Soon after discovering her love of underground dance music at 16 years old, she began DJing local clubs. Just two years later, in 2011, she won a DJ competition to open the main stage at the massive Belgian dance festival, Tomorrowland. She's been on a roll ever since.

After taking over her home country, she swiftly made waves across Europe in 2016, including in dance club hotspots Berlin and Barcelona. That same year, she played her first stateside shows—in Brooklyn, of course. By 2017, she was one of the most buzzed-about new underground DJs in the U.S. scene and played both EDC Las Vegas and Detroit's iconic Movement Electronic Music Festival in 2018.

In addition to her in-demand tour schedule, she's released hard-hitting techno banger after banger, launched a label, showcased her effortless style in a collab with TOMBOY, and cultivated her ever-growing fanbase on media content (she currently has 1.7 million followers on Instagram).

And while 2020 meant much more time at home in Belgium than she's had in years, it was still a triumphant one for the powerhouse producer. In November, she was named DJ Mag's No. 1 Alternative DJ, and the following month she celebrated the one-year anniversary of her label/event brand, KNTXT.

GRAMMY.com recently caught up with de Witte to learn more about her journey to the top, what the 2020 slow down felt like for her, her experience with sexism in dance music, and more.

You were named DJ Mag's 2020 No. 1 Alternative DJ, what does that recognition feel like for you?

It's a pretty big milestone to hit, especially in the year that's as weird as 2020. It felt like a massive hug from the scene and from the people out there. [It felt like they said], "Hey, thanks for being connected and thanks for sharing the music." Carl Cox was always No. 1 since the beginning of this alternative list [in 2018]. So, to knock someone like Carl Cox off the throne is really massive. And I mean, there are so many incredibly talented people on there, so it's still pretty surreal actually when I think of it. It's incredible.

You're the first woman to get to the top of the list and while it does feel like things are shifting a bit, I'm curious what you think needs to happen within the dance industry to keep lifting up more women, and people of color, to the top?

Well, I'm a firm believer that the dancefloor and the dance scene should be a place of total freedom, a place where you can express yourself no matter your gender, your color, your beliefs, your sexuality—it doesn't matter, it should be a place of freedom. I think there's still a lot of work when it comes to equality and fighting for those rights. I think you can always do more things, and it's very important to keep an open mind and to keep an open conversation about these things.

I can speak a lot about gender inequality because obviously, I've been having these questions since I started DJing. I don't think there should be necessarily a 50-50 equal division on the lineup, but there should be equal opportunities and equal chances, and you should treat people the same. So I think there's still work to do, but it's getting better. You see more and more female DJs popping up as well and getting a lot of opportunities same as male DJs, but there's still a lot of work. It's important to keep an open mind and keep the conversation going, always.

"I'm a firm believer that the dancefloor and the dance scene should be a place of total freedom, a place where you can express yourself no matter your gender, your color, your beliefs, your sexuality… So I think there's still a lot of work when it comes to equality and fighting for those rights."

One thing I think about a lot is the term "female DJ." Do you have instances where people say, "You're my favorite female artist?" How do you deal with that? I'm sure that that can be pretty frustrating.

It is, it's incredibly frustrating. And it happens all the time. A very annoying thing that happens as well is, when people online tend to compare DJs, 99 percent of the cases, it is between two female DJs. And indeed, they refer to you as a female DJ or "DJane," that's also a word.

I've been DJing for 11 years now and it's bad to say that I sort of got used to it. Not that it doesn't give me the chills, I mean, if someone in my close surroundings would say something like that, I would probably say something about it, but I realized that this mindset is a very slow one to change in people. Also, people don't fully realize what they're doing with saying those things—that doesn't make it right—but there are much worse things you can say than referring to someone as a female DJ. I mean, there are a lot of other battles to fight.

Read: Aluna On New Album 'Renaissance' & Making Dance Music Inclusive Again

I remember you getting a lot of buzz in 2017, and, from the outside, it's seemed like you've had a steady, rapid rise since then. What has the journey to where you are today felt like for you?

It's always sort of fascinating to look back at it myself because indeed everything has been a massive rollercoaster from where I was 11 years ago. How I started, I never would have dreamed of being where I am now. I mean, no one can fully grasp what has happened. In the beginning, it was really the tiny clubs in a tiny area where I used to live and then just massively going with the flow and doing what [felt] right. And I think having a lot of luck and being surrounded with the right people and doing things at the right time together with the right kind of motivation and ambition that you need.

I think those aspects really made the difference and got [me to the next level] in Belgium, first of all. And then things just started heading off on a worldwide basis. And indeed, for the past three years, minus this year, I've been touring non-stop and I've been probably one of the DJs touring the most in the world. And it's incredible. So it's been a rollercoaster, but touring really made me happy as well. It gave me so much energy. It was extremely exhausting, but it shaped me so much as a human being.

What has it felt like to finally have some time at home and off the road to reflect on all of it?

Well, 2020 has been a bit strange. I was lucky to be with people that I really love, very close to me. I think without them, I would have fallen into a black hole. There is no doubt about that. Even now, mentally, it's not easy, but that really kept me going. Also, having the time to have a normal pattern in my life, a normal sleep cycle, healthy food, because you don't have to eat shitty airport food again, [has been good]. So I'm trying to be productive. And [I'm] resting a lot. I did realize that my body and my mind could both use the rest at the beginning of the lockdown, so we rested.

I think it's been a very interesting year to work towards the future, but it's confusing because no one really knows what it is—I don't want to [get] too philosophical or too depressing. But I think it's been a year to be productive and to really clear minds, and take the experiences from the past and try and shape the future.

You released a couple of EPs in 2020—including Return To Nowhere and Rave On Time—and some remixes and singles. Did you work on those before or after lockdown?

I made them at the end of 2019, so everything was already scheduled. When everything happened, we were thinking of holding back the [label] release of Return To Nowhere and Rave On Time until a time where we could go to clubs and festivals again because they're made to be played at those places. But we just decided to go for it. It provides some music in these times.

I made the Bob Moses [and ZHU] remix in March and that one just got released [in December]. So that's the only thing that had a short time span [from when I made it], but all the others were made before. Now we've made some new music that's coming out in 2021, so hopefully we'll be out of lockdown.

Related: How Will Coronavirus Shift Electronic Music? Maceo Plex, Paul Van Dyk, Luttrell, Mikey Lion & DJ Manager Max Leader Weigh In

I talked to a couple of DJs at the beginning of lockdown. If you're used to making music for the dancefloor, it's like, "Well, what do I make now?" Some artists talked about not feeling motivated to make dance music when they didn't know when that space would return. I feel like any time good dance music comes out it is a good thing, we need that release of moving our bodies, wherever we are.

I get it. But it is strange to make dance music [in lockdown]. In the beginning, it was still OK because the memory of the dance festivals were still fresh. But after 10, 11 months, when I'm sitting in the studio, it's really tough to make something with a strong kick. I'm experimenting a bit towards more ambient stuff, which is nice as well, to have [during] this time of experimenting. I completely understand what they said, it feels so strange even listening to new music or trying to find new techno tracks. It started to be very strange. I think it makes sense. You're just so distant from it, but you have to keep it alive. [Laughs.]

To that point, what are you most looking forward to when you get to return to the dancefloor?

I think the entire experience. Stepping on to your flights—preferably without a mask by then—arriving at your country of destination, going to restaurants there, the conversations you have with the people there, the promoters, the club's hard-hitting bass—the volume, the loudness that we all haven't heard in such a long time—and the energy, the sweating, everything. I'm sure it will be very magical once it comes back because we will not take it for granted anymore. It will be a new era, we just have to be patient.

It's going to feel weird.

It is. And I think there's going to be so much energy on the floor and the explosion is going to be massive. Like every single show will be—it already was unique, but it will be incredibly unique and very intense. Hopefully, by then we can look back at it as a healthy reset because people don't take it for granted anymore. I think that is a good aspect. And people are also starting to realize the importance of having clubs and festivals around and nightlife culture—because nightlife culture has always been the ugly sister that no one wants to talk about. Everyone just regards it as drug-filled and dirty. And it is, but [it's not just that]—nightlife is really important. I think we still have a very long way to go [in order] to convey this message to people and for people in charge to realize that we matter a lot.

Recently in Germany, they declared that techno was music.

That was cool.

Now, German nightclubs can get the same funding and tax breaks that other venues do. We've seen the nightlife community come together to ask for relief funding for clubs because otherwise many are not going to survive. You're right, it matters and not just to "ravers," it's important to so many people, including those who work in it and keep those industries alive.

Exactly. There's so much more to it than what an unknowing person thinks. I think it's important that people are made aware of that. We still have a long way to go. I mean, why at the main stage [of a festival, do] you never really have DJs? You can have electronic music acts, but when you talk about a DJ, they are never fully considered a musician. That's a never-ending discussion. So, I think the fact that Germany did state that techno is music is a good start.

You just celebrated the one-year anniversary of your label, KNTXT. What was your goal when you were launching the label and what is your vision with it going forward?

Basically, to find a creative platform for my music, but also music from other artists—that was the main thing, to release good music. And to organize parties, that was also a very important part of it. We did a couple in New York, Milan, Barcelona, and London. They were going very well and we are going to start again as soon as we can.

Besides that, we just want to be a creative place and connect music with other things. For instance, I'm a big foodie, so we are trying to see how we can connect music with food or chefs because a lot of chefs are also big techno fans. It's a very interesting platform to discover things from. And now we had the collaboration with the headphone brands AIAIAI . That was a very cool one. We had a fashion collaboration too. It's just a bit of putting out your arms towards the other creative industries. It's nice, it's very cool.

To celebrate the anniversary, you released a vinyl box set that includes the new track "Lighthouse." Can you tell us a bit more about the sonic elements and mood of the song, and what else you have in store for the White Label?

Well, "Lighthouse" is the first White Label release. White Label-wise, we still have to explore what direction we want to go with it. I think our main focus is to release EPs like we've been doing, but I think "Lighthouse" was a very nice addition to this collector's box set. I also made that track a while ago.

It's very dancefloor-oriented, it has an acid line in there. Fun fact: in "Lighthouse" you hear a voice saying some things; it's my voice saying the definition of context, and I reversed it. I like reversing things because it makes things sound less common or cheesy. The definition of context is in there. So, you're getting context on context, basically.

Reversing parts of audio is somewhat common in hip-hop—Kendrick Lamar used it a lot on DAMN. Producers will play a drum loop or something backward and it feels like you're like falling backward or dreaming.

Yeah. Some things just sound more interesting in reverse. And I have the feeling that, especially with vocals, it makes things a bit more alienating. If I would just have said the definition of context, it would be a bit lame.

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What do you think are the essential elements of a great techno banger?

It's always a tough one when they ask you to define music because I can give you a Wikipedia-type definition, but in the end it's also very much of an emotional experience and what is best for me, is slow for someone else. But I think techno is a very functional 4/4 beat. It's not necessarily happy, it's quite undeground and it can be quite repetitive and loopy and can be quite stripped. So it's not chaotic or not happy sounding. That's how I would describe it to an audience. It's not like EDM where you can put your hands up in the air. I mean, you can put your hands up in the air, but not because they tell you to.

"I am drawn to sort of the 'less is more' aspect of [techno]. You don't need a lot of very audible elements to give you a lot in return. It speaks to me in its emptiness, in a way."

What specific elements are you typically drawn to in a techno track?

I am drawn to sort of the "less is more" aspect of it. You don't need a lot of very audible elements to give you a lot in return. It speaks to me in its emptiness, in a way. It just gives space to a lot of the elements that you use. And that underground side, which is just more interesting to me because it makes me think about those things and wonder.

When did you first start listening to techno? And at what point did you know that you wanted to start producing music yourself?

I started going to these underground clubs where I went to school at the age of 16, 17. I think that's where I first got in touch with electronic music, but also the more underground side of it. Electro was quite big in Belgium back in the days, but it also started getting me in touch with techno music. So, my initial step into electronic music was electro, which you don't hear that often nowadays.

Gradually, by digging deeper into this world of electronic music, I found techno and I'm still there. I think I started producing a couple of years later. I also started DJing almost straight away because I fell in love with the music and I wanted to do something with it. Initially, it was just for me, like I was mixing tracks at home, to listen to on my iPod when I was going to school and never thought of putting them online.

But at some point, I did [put mixes online] and then things just started rolling. Music-making started a couple of years later because I felt a need to not only play other people's music but also to explore this world of beat making myself. Because it's a whole world and it's extremely fascinating to delve deeper.

You dove in, that's awesome.

Yeah, sort of. And I could—my parents were always supportive, they just let me do me. I mean, I wasn't harming anyone with it. They just saw that it made me happy, so they just let me be. It was cool—I was lucky as well. A crazy path.

What are your release plans for 2021?

I've been working on some stuff to release on my label, KNTXT, in 2021. Also, we have a remix that's coming out. I think a lot of people will release a lot of music in 2021 because everyone had so much time. I have stuff coming and I'm very happy with the results.

I really look forward to playing it on the dancefloor and seeing the reaction of the crowd. I've been playing some of the tracks on [live]streams [I've done] but having six cameras pointed at your face—even though millions of people are watching—can not compare with the crowd. So I really look forward to that moment.

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BLOND:ISH

BLOND:ISH

Photo: Courtesy Of The Artist

 
News

BLOND:ISH On Finding Real Community On Twitch, Staying Present & Remixing Foreigner & Fela Kuti

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GRAMMY.com caught up with the lively DJ/producer to chat about her latest music, finding inspiration in the present moment, advocating for sustainable parties with Bye Bye Plastic and more
Ana Monroy Yglesias
GRAMMYs
Nov 23, 2020 - 8:47 am

Vive-Ann Bakos, a.k.a. BLOND:ISH, is a vibrant being who creates joyful soundscapes and spaces for all to dance and play in. The Canada-born, Los Angeles-based DJ/producer has been a global force in the underground house music scene for the past decade-plus, which is fitting for someone whose sets take you on a journey with rhythms from Colombia, Nigeria, Berlin and beyond. While she's played major clubs and festivals around the world, including all over Tulum, Mexico, Miami, Ibiza, Spain and at Coachella 2019, it's perhaps her Burning Man sunrise sets for which she's most beloved.

Now, with the global shutdown of 2020, Bakos has brought her sunshine personality, love of collaboration and joyful music to the world via Twitch with AbracadabraTV. Every week, fellow artists and dance music lovers gather virtually for the lively music from resident and rotating artists on "Magic Saturdaze," as well as yoga, meditation and music during "Self Love Sundays."

Collaboration and connection are at the core of her ethos. Her label, Abracadabra Records, launched in 2018, is another expansion of the BLOND:ISH universe. 2020 releases on Abracadabra have included the Troublemakers Vol. 1 compilation EP and two-track EPs from Canada's Gab Rhome, Paris duo and AbraTV regulars Chambord, Greece's DSF and others. Look out for a new single from the label maestro herself on Dec. 11: a mystical house collab with Rowee called "Garden Of 3Den."

And with Bye Bye Plastic, also created in 2018, Bakos is paving the path for a more sustainable global community with plastic-free, environmentally friendly guidelines for dance music events and festivals.

GRAMMY.com caught up with Bakos to chat about her latest and upcoming music, finding community online, sustainability, collaboration and more.

 
Your birthday just passed. Happy birthday!

Thank you.

I'm a Libra, too. I'm sure you know, Libras are known for being social, diplomatic, creative and other fabulous things. Do you identify with these qualities? And how do you feel being a Libra influences your creativity in your art and your music?

I didn't know that Libras are creative. My girlfriend's looking at me like, "You knew that." [Laughs.] But no, I just do my thing, you know what I mean? I didn't realize that it was potentially a Libra thing. Today, I was walking on the streets, I'm just really inspired by my surroundings. I was walking around New York and [there are] so many inspirational quotes and stuff everywhere. And I'm just so inspired by all that. I could be in Egypt, walking into a hotel and the door's creaking, and I get inspired by that sound and I'll record it. So it's really random for me. I didn't know it had to do with Libras.

So, you're sort of constantly amused, entertained and inspired by the world around you?

Yeah. I was hanging out with a lot of kids during quarantine. And I was making songs about plastic and poop and stuff. It really depends who I'm around.

Earlier this year, you officially released your fun remix of Foreigner's "I Want To Know What Love Is," the only remix they've ever approved. Can you talk about the journey behind the remix?

It was a long journey. Every year at Burning Man, I try to make a special edit for those sunrise moments. And I like it to encapsulate that feeling of being completely free—and the sunrise—in the middle of the desert with your best friends. It's just the best moment ever that exists, so I like to make an edit for that moment. Somehow, Foreigner came on and it's a super cheesy track. For some reason, I thought it would be good for Burning Man because it would encapsulate that moment. I thought it was risky because it was so cheesy, but then I realized, "It's OK, let's take that risk." And I made the edit because it was really fun to play with it and to replay the basslines and stuff.

When I played it, it was one of the last tracks at the Robot Heart set and, literally, hundreds of people took videos. And I realized after I played it that, "Wow, this is actually a track that people really connect with. And it brings back people to so many different memories." So I was like, "I want to release this. How can we do it?"

We tried so many different routes. I got a lot of nos: "No, they're not going to release it." It's not even [from] Foreigner—I was even asking my friends, "Who knows Foreigner?" And I had a bunch of friends who knew that was someone's dad or someone. So we got connected with them and they said, "Yeah, we would love to release it."

But at the end of the day, they don't own it, so we had to get the publisher to release it. And sometimes these are just people sitting behind a desk. They don't really understand. It was an edit, right, it wasn't a complete super remix. And I think some of those A&Rs, they need some EDM remix or something to make it valid. I don't take no for an answer; I just try to find another way. I think that's great advice for people, is if you hear no, just find a different way, potentially. And yeah, finally we got to the right person and we got a yes, and we got it released officially. It took a year and a half.

What's one of your other favorite edits that you've done for Burning Man over the years?

What did I do? I don't even remember. I'd have to check my computer and check my tracks. My girlfriend's like, "Do you need help?" My brain doesn't work like that. I'm so focused on the present or the future; whatever happened in the past is passé.

What are some of the ways that help you stay present or grounded? How has being present in the moment become so natural for you?

Morning rituals, for sure. Morning meditation to start off the day. It's best, when you wake up, to stay away from those distractions as much as possible. So stay away from your phone and laptop. I mean, it's really obvious advice, but it grounds you for the day. It sets up your day in the right direction.

I try to do my morning rituals as much as possible. I try to do some yoga, stretching or Pilates in the morning. I would love to get more into Qigong; right now, that's calling me. I've practiced it, but I don't have it in my daily practice. You know when you just get those downloads? I got that download, I just haven't pressed play yet. And literally, honestly, I try to stay present. I turn off all my notifications and all that stuff. I don't even use Facebook. Have you seen The Social Dilemma?

I still need to watch it, but I've heard good things.

Yeah. Watch Social Dilemma and My Octopus Teacher. I mean, those are two totally different documentaries, but very important for understanding the idea of presence. So even just walking around New York—when I'm walking on the street, I am just listening to the sounds and observing people. And that's also presence, but in a different way. So simple things like that, just being aware.

That's so true. And you're right, it is technically simple, but I think we're so used to being on our phones.

Yeah, for sure. So the whole goal is to get more in your heart, into where your second brain lives, your intuition, which is near your solar plexus. And right now, as humans, we're so in our heads, which is just really top layer, where we're constantly distracted. And that's the furthest away from our true essence. So it's about turning those things off so we can get deeper into ourselves.

You've remixed a lot of great tracks and a lot of really different stuff—Fela Kuti, Black Coffee and Kaskade with Sabrina Claudio, to name a few. How do you typically approach a remix? And what do you feel is the BLOND:ISH touch?

[Laughs.] Honestly, if I like the track, [I'll remix it]. Fela Kuti is such an inspirational character in so many ways. The BPM was so hard to work with on that track, but I was like, "F*** it," because it has such a positive message and he's such an incredible human being that I was inspired by that. And also the whole idea of Africa and the drums; that inspired me.

And then for the Sabrina Claudio remix, they were like, "Oh, they want to release it in two weeks. Can you do a remix in a few days?" And this was at the beginning of quarantine, when there were no clubs, nothing. I was just at home quarantining. And I thought, "The only place you can really listen to music is at home and in your car." I was inspired by the fact that people like to escape from their house and go take a joyride in their cars, so I wanted to make a remix that sounded good in a car. Also, it's that kind of thinking, what's relevant to me in that moment.

I'm working on a remix right now for Christmas. Universal's doing some sort of Christmas album, so I'm remixing an old Temptations track. I remember the Temptations because my parents used to listen to them, and I'm inspired by those really nice basslines they had. I was listening to music all over the house, so I'll make it sound like something you'd like to listen to in your home.

I love that. BLOND:ISH beyond Burning Man, beyond the club.

That's great. Actually, that's a good tagline. I like it.

What's your favorite part about collaborating with other artists?

My favorite part of collaborating is the unknown, where it's going to go. It's like at Burning Man. The reason why Burning Man is so special is because everyone is coming there, sharing their passion or their arts. You'll have the Orgasmatron and then you'll have someone that's really inspired by, I don't know, bourbons or tantra. And they're all living, camping beside each other, and they're interacting. From there comes all the spontaneous moments. That's what art is. It's mixing two creative people.

If you draw two circles, each circle is a collaborator. And there's a part of them that overlaps, and that overlap is unknown. That, to me, is where the magic happens. That's why I love collaborating with other people because you don't know what's going to come out of it. You trust the process because you love what they do, you collaborate with people that you respect and that you're inspired by. So out of the collaboration, new things are born. And you had no idea, you just trusted that process.

Obviously, Burning Man didn't happen this year due to the pandemic. It was just in our hearts. In its absence, what element of magic from the Playa do you feel society could use most right now?

You don't feel lonely at Burning Man. No matter where you are on the Playa, you just feel together; it's one unit. And [there are] 80,000 people there. You feel you all have similar goals and it's all positive. I'm generalizing, but it's really that togetherness, the unity feeling, I guess. And right now, in this world, I'm very optimistic, but things feel so f***ed up and like there's no way out. I hate to say that, but at Burning Man, you don't feel that. You feel everything is going to be OK and that we're all in this together. I feel that's definitely what we can use in this world right now.

I feel like I live in a bubble and I want to make this bubble the size of the world so every human can really feel that freedom and happiness. It's one of our rights. That's what we're trying to do with AbracadabraTV on Twitch and stuff. We're really building the community that way so that they get all those positive reinforcements and those tools. And happiness, ways to feel happy, and music. We go live on Saturdays and Sundays on Twitch, and when we're not live, there's a community gathering on our Discord. There are all sorts of different channels on our Discord: There's a general channel, one on music, on weed, all our different interests. And we talk there when we're not live, so we're still hanging out.

That's where we share a lot of mindful practices, just to hit the messages [from the Twitch programming] home. I've noticed that a lot of people introduce themselves and share they are having mental health issues. And they really find Abracadabra to be a safe space where it actually brings them a little bit of breathing space, out of their mental health issues. I'm all for helping with that.

Wow. That's really powerful. With AbracadabraTV and everything you're doing on Twitch, what has it felt like to have that space to share your music and your message while not being able to do live events and to connect with people in person?

It's such a breath of fresh air. Because if this never happened, I would have never discovered this. I'm so grateful to have discovered it and to actually witness it. Being so connected to the community when I'm playing live—listen, it's amazing, that feeling. And I know DJs miss it very, very much. But honestly, when you're playing a gig, you don't interact with the crowd. You can't get instant feedback. Twitch has chat, which is instant feedback. You can basically have a conversation with your community while you're playing. The conversations they are having online can dictate how your live set progresses and evolves. So it's super cool. The community has never been able to speak with the artists while they're DJing or be connected so closely. That's been an amazing discovery during—whatever this is called—2020.

The thing that is 2020. In addition to the weekly Twitch content, you also hosted the two virtual Abracadabra Festivals. What was the most fun part of the fests for you?

The most fun part, honestly, was being live in the studio in L.A. with the production team, and Channel Tres, Paris Hilton, Diplo, everyone coming through. And everyone just being happy to be a part of it and to be a part of that bigger message. The second festival, we decided to do 80 hours—I don't know why—in a row. It was very exhausting.

But when we were in the studio and everything was just running and we were live and there [were] millions of people watching, I was like, "Wow, it was all worth it." And then getting the feedback from people from all around the world, friends and people that just discovered us. And again, I got that sense of unity for a second. And unity, if you want to backtrack, is one, right? And so this presence, everyone being completely present, also equates to unity as well—they're all in the same space.

Read: Dave Maclean Is Livestreaming With The Band & Chatting With Cats

I've experienced those moments on Twitch where the chat is really fun, the music is really good and I'm dancing with my cat. I never expected a livestream or the internet to be a place where I could really feel present.

The one vibe.

Yeah, it's cool.

It is, right? I'm trying to show the other DJs. Because there's a bunch of DJs that are really not into streaming at all and everyone's different, of course. But I have a feeling that a lot of DJs just haven't gotten that experience, of the chat on fire and all the goodness, of that one vibe on Twitch.

I wonder what the future looks like when we're able to gather again at festivals and in clubs. It would be really interesting to see if artists do more livestreams, where people that can't physically come to the festival can still feel like they're a part of it, too. Do you have any idea of what you'd want to do?

Want me to tell you the future? I'll tell you how it is going to work. So physical events are going to come back. And you have the people that buy tickets and will be there. But you also have another layer, the livestream component. So you have another revenue stream now, where you're going to be selling tickets to the people around the world. For instance, Tulum is open in January, as of now, so we're planning a physical event, obviously reduced capacity, and we're also planning a livestream. So we're going to sell tickets to that as well, for the people that can't be there because many people are not going to travel to Tulum this year, especially from Europe and stuff.

And then, VR is actually getting a huge push because of COVID, and it's all these different worlds. You can come as an avatar to the event; we can build an Abracadabra world in VR. And with a drone, you can control cameras at the event. There are all sorts of different experiences you can have around this one event. And [there are] also ways that—we haven't figured this part out yet, but we're working on it—the audience at home will be able to interact in the physical event somehow.

Read: Bye Bye Plastic: BLOND:ISH, Annie Mac, Eats Everything & More Advocate For Eco-Friendly Parties

To the point of raving in person again, I want to talk about Bye Bye Plastic, because if we want to keep partying, we need to do it in a way that's sustainable. Can you talk about how you are approaching sustainability at events? I'd also love to hear about the initial experience of getting a bunch of DJs on board with the Eco-Rider?

Yeah. I mean, we're trying to just produce the least amount of waste as possible and also being conscious about any fuel we're using to minimize the footprint. We think about the whole circularity of the sustainability process—any waste we produce, what are we doing with each and every thing. Like cigarette butts, where are they going after we collect them? And the compostable cups, where are they going? There isn't any plastic at our events, but even if [there are] bottle caps ...

At our last Tulum event, there was something little that was plastic, and we made sure to repurpose everything. We always make sure it goes to the right place. Even when we do a beach clean, we don't just put the plastic in a recycling bin. We figure out where it's going and make sure it's processed properly because the waste management systems are not trustworthy right now, so we handle it all ourselves.

So [there are] a lot of things that happen in the background with the beach clean. It's not just you show up at the beach, pick up some garbage and that's it. We take inventory and we distribute it properly, so it's upcycled. There's a really cool machine that they've developed in Tulum called Petgas that we're working with. Basically, you can throw any grade of plastic in it and it creates some sort of clean fuel. It's a great collaboration because that will create wealth for the locals.

And your question about the DJs—I mean, listen, I had an assistant last year when I had extra cash. And we had this strategy where it was like, "OK, well we know all the agents, managers, DJs and business. Let's reach out to every single one of them. Let's start a movement." We spent six months getting everyone situated and organized, and then we did a viral push with the video. And that was that. Now we're expanding with more DJs. And working with more agencies and artist houses that have a lot of DJs, so you get 50 artists at a time, not one by one.

I don't know how many times I've wanted to cry leaving an event and walking over crumbled plastic water bottles. The plastic-free Eco-Rider is so smart and seems so common sense. But it is different than the status quo. Were people excited about it?

Yeah, totally, people are excited about it. But then there's a lot of work that's babysitting, basically. When you go to a gig, the DJ doesn't really have time to make sure about all that stuff. So the logistics team, or whoever's helping with the gig, needs to make sure a week before—there's a whole bunch of steps to take care of in the babysitting process.

Right now, there are people doing parties at home, safely or however they're doing it. We want to create a culture of people not buying the red plastic cups, so we're creating a guide for the U.S. of what the alternatives are and how to do a plastic-free event for small private parties and stuff. I noticed people just don't know what to get.

Can we talk a little bit about your label, the other side of Abracadabra? What do you look for in an artist or a release for it?

Well, this is changing right now. Typically, we had a certain vibe, but now there are a lot of artists that come through ABRA TV that are super, super talented and have different styles. It's not just about a genre anymore, it's about the message. So we're expanding that horizon to a positive message with the music.

What BLOND:ISH releases can we expect in the next couple of months, beyond the amazing Christmas track you mentioned?

I did a remix for Sony of [Ethiopian singer] Aster Aweke. It's a really emotional track. You don't understand the words [unless you speak Amharic], but when you feel it, you get the emotion out of it. It's another super cool car track to listen to in your car or dance to in your backyard. That's coming out next. And then I have a release, an original track, with a female vocalist coming out on Spinnin'. It's called "Waves." I don't know when it's coming out though, but probably in a month or two.

And what vibe is "Waves"?

It's very vocal and [features] a lot of piano chords. When you hear the piano chords, it just instantly makes you smile. That kind of vibe.

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RP Boo smiles in front of Chicago skyline

RP Boo in Chicago

Photo: Will Glasspiegel

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RP Boo On New Album 'Established!' & The Founding Of Chicago’s Frenetic House Subgenre, Footwork

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Chicago DJ/producer RP Boo helped create the superfast dance music known as footwork—20 years later, he still sounds like no one else
Noah Berlatsky
GRAMMYs
Sep 17, 2021 - 1:20 pm

"I'm sticking with DJing, because that's about love!" Kavain Wayne Space, aka RP Boo, says from his Chicago home on the zoom call. He wears a sleeveless white t-shirt and his smile lights up the bare room.  As you'd maybe expect from a DJ, he talks with his hands, gesturing so emphatically it sometimes looks like he's going to reach back and knock the White Sox cap off the perch behind him.

RP Boo may not talk like an elder statesman, but he's got some grey in his pointed beard, and he's been around for a while. He's one of the pioneers of Chicago footwork or juke, a superfast dance music invented in the mid- and late-90s that is built around rapid fire beats and incessantly repeated tape loops. When RP Boo says, "that's about…that's about love!" he sounds a lot like his own music.

Footwork has had moments where it almost seemed about to break into the mainstream; Kanye West's remix of Kid Sister's 2007 "Pro Nails" was a brief sensation, and DJ Rashad's 2014 album Double Cup received wide praise. But RP Boo has never quite become a household name, though he's gotten more recognition since the release of his first album Legacy in 2013.

His fourth and most recent release, Established! (Planet MU) shows that sort-of success hasn't dimmed his weirdness or slowed down that 160 bpm. He recently spoke to GRAMMY.com about the roots of Chicago footwork, leaving his day job, and being a legend.

The first track on Established! ("All My Life") is based around this loop that repeats "All my life I've loved to dance." When did you start dancing and did that lead you to making music?

For me, I watched my uncle dance, and he just enjoyed it. And whatever dance he was doing, we didn't know, we just made fun of it.  And I got a cousin that I'd say about in '81—he would make these dances up, him and his friends. And it was catchy to me.

I used to try to break dance but couldn't figure it out. And about '85 or '86, that's when the house music in Chicago [started]. It was like, I like these dances. So I picked up this dancing, and got kind of good at it.

And once I learned how to DJ, I still loved dancing. Whatever your body wants to do when you're at a party, whether you know how to dance or not—it's not about you doing it correctly. To be jumping up the dance moves is to be a part of dancing with God.

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So when did you start DJing? Was it in the mid-90s or was it earlier than that?

I graduated from high school in 1991. And that's when I started buying my equipment. So as soon as I got out of high school, I just started to—I forget what type of turntables they were, but they had belt drives and they had a pitch on them. And I learned how to work those real fast. How to work the pitch, how to blend the tracks and how to fade the tracks out. How to know the note of records, where you want to come in at and where you want to cut out at. And it was less than a year and a half to mastery.

When you started, Chicago ghetto house was popular. And juke is basically Chicago ghetto house sped up. How did you all start playing this music faster?

It was a group I think, on the West Side. I guess they brain was somewhere else. So they had the DJ, whoever made this tape, instead of playing the vinyl on 33 they put it on 45. And they bashed the dance floor with it. So I guess they won the competition.

But word started getting around and people started imitating the trend, and DJs started  producing those 160 bpm [records].

The title of your album is Established! with an exclamation point. And I know that it's taken you a long time to get recognition. Do you still have a day job?

No! No.

I was working at a Lowe's Home Improvement store until 2013. That's when I ended up getting let go. And at that point, I think of December of 2012, I had just finished Legacy.

I never thought that I would ever be without a job. The store manager at Lowe's was a real good guy. And he says, "Well, corporate states that you could come back here but you can't be hired for six months."

As I was walking out, I said, "What am I going to do with the next six months?" And I said this out loud, "I think I'm going to start touring."

I was depressed. I stayed depressed—that was in late February. And in late April, I get a phone call from New York. And he says, "I heard you have an album coming out. If we'd known you had an album, we would have booked you to do a release party here in New York."

On the day of the release, I texted back and said I don't have the job [keeping me from touring anymore]. He says, "Can you be here in two weeks?" I was like, "Yeah!" I end up getting at least seven opportunities to play overseas within the first week.

"You just have to be prepared to let the world blossom and blossom with it. But you can't predict it." RP Boo

So you never had to go back to Lowe's.

No.

You just have to be prepared to let the world blossom and blossom with it. But you can't predict it.

Do you hear your music as an influence in a lot of what's out there now?

Oh yes. DJ Rashad [who died in 2014]—I was a great influence on him. And him on me.  And so Rashad was saying, "Hey, wait till you hear RP, this is the only guy that would change his style, multiple times. And as he changes it, that influences how other people listen. It's something about how his music just keeps changing."

I was listening to the track "All Over," which has the Phil Collins sample. How did that song come about? Did you have the sample first?

Yeah. Those are the songs I grew up to. In the '80s, we watched the videos, nobody paid attention. But that was the new wave of the future. And these are all the songs; I listened to Genesis, to the Phil Collins solo projects. And I found myself over time collecting them, I have them in my phone. So then I could drive and hear these songs.

I've had it in my archives for years. And I tried to play with it at least about nine years ago, and nothing worked. So I said, in due time I'll come back to it.

And one day I was going through my files just listening to music and I listened to [Phil Collins'] "I Don't Care Anymore."  And I looked at the BPM and said, [claps!] "Oh, this is right where I need to begin. And I played with it and let it run. And that's where I stopped it. [Makes a record scratch noise.] [Sings] "All over..ah..ah…all over."  And it worked. It worked out.

You have a song called, "Haters Increase the Heat" about overcoming detractors. But when I was listening to it, I thought, who can hate you?! [RP Boo gives a look.] They're out there?

Def. It's more about people that have no clue about what you do or what you're going through. Rashad dealt with that.

And I was like, oh, you know what? Let me make some music. That's why I say, [rhythmically quoting his track] "Haters increase the heat. It's getting hot, it's getting hotter. Haters gonna keep making my tracks get hot."

In other words, I will take the negative and do something productive, and show you what you can do with the negative and make a spark.

Have you been able to continue working during COVID?

I was able to do a lot of direct streams and recorded streaming projects, direct from our festivals overseas, and two remix projects. So I was able to stay busy. [Sighs.] But I've missed the touring.

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ZHU onstage

ZHU

Photo: Joey Vitalari

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ZHU Talks New Rave-Ready Album 'DREAMLAND 2021,' Being Inspired By Hyphy Music & Asian Americans Finally Being Heard

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ZHU's third album, 'DREAMLAND 2021,' is a tribute to returning to the dancefloor that invokes a dark, sweaty warehouse rave and features support from Channel Tres, Yuna, Tinashe and more
Ana Monroy Yglesias
GRAMMYs
May 14, 2021 - 8:56 am

Back in the summer of 2014, a driving, moody deep house earworm called "Faded" crept into our ears, swiftly becoming an inescapable bop around the world. It topped charts around the world—including hitting No. 1 on Billboard's Dance Club Songs chart—and made the then-mysterious singer/producer ZHU a star of the global dance scene and a GRAMMY-nominated artist.

Since his big debut, the artist born Steven Zhu in 1989 in San Francisco, California, has demonstrated his dexterity as a vocalist, producer, remixer, and collaborator, keeping mainstream dance music interesting and innovator. He's worked with Skrillex, SOFI TUKKER, Bob Moses, TOKiMONSTA and Majid Jordan, to name a few.

ZHU's third album, DREAMLAND 2021, released April 29 on Astralwerks, is a tribute to returning to the dancefloor, invoking a dark, sweaty warehouse rave, featuring support from Channel Tres, Yuna, Tinashe and more. GRAMMY.com caught up with the "Zhudio54" artist ahead of the immersive, powerhouse new album's release to learn about how it came together and what he thinks the future of dance music will look like. He also shares what the response to "Faded" felt like for him, the influence of growing up in the Bay Area on his music and Asian Americans' ongoing struggle against racism.

Let's start with the new album. Can you take us inside the dream of DREAMLAND 2021?

Yeah. For me, I think I've evolved quite a bit in the last couple of years sonically and just in my craft. I think from the beginning, people didn't really know maybe all the different assets musically that I was able to put in audio format because, even up to a couple of years ago, people didn't know that my voice was on the records or that I had written some of this or that.

This record definitely allows people to peep more into more of the whole 360 perspective of my music—from the production, to the vocals, to the features, to the different sonic landscapes. I'm pretty excited to let people get a taste of it.

Not unlike the last album, there are a lot of awesome collabs on this one—including Channel Tres, Yuna and Tinashe. How did you choose who to bring into the mix on this one?

Everything, honestly, that I do, it's just been pretty organic. I think getting in the studio with an artist always leads to either the best or worst. [Laughs.] I think with electronic music too, it's a lot of times we'll just send stuff out [to collaborators] and you never know what you're going to get back. But I really make it a point to craft the songs and the way I think the mood and direction goes. For this record, working with each artist was great. They all wanted to be on it and it was all pretty organic.

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Were the collaborations all remote or were you able to meet up in person with anyone?

I recorded everybody's vocals at my studio. The Yuna song ["Sky Is Crying"], her and I had written an earlier version of it a long time ago and I randomly stumbled upon it one day. I was like, "This song is really great, I want to put in a club." So, I redid the song and sent it to her and we finished this version of that record pretty much this year.

What was it like working with each of them?

Everything has been fast. I mean, I don't really do more than one or two takes on anything. I feel like if you're not going to get it with instinct it's not—I don't look at it as filmmaking, where you have like seven, 12, 50, 100 takes. Music is emotion first, so if it doesn't make you feel something immediately, then I usually go away from it and come back later. Or it just comes out and it's there.

And obviously, there's a lot of refining process but I've been trying more and more to keep things rolling and not as super-polished, pristine, because I want the character as well.

It's pretty easy to say this album will sound really good on a dancefloor and any kind of big-speakers situation. What do you think raving in the hopefully not-too-distant future will look like?

I think people are ready and I think when people get that taste of the feeling, they're going to go crazy. They've been starved and they're going to feast.

Do you think it's going to happen this year?

Raving? Yeah, definitely.

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Almost everything was shut down, but we've never had clubs and events close to this degree ever, really. Do you think it's going to lead to a new wave of dance music or that there's going to be a new underground sound? Obviously, things are going to be different, but what does it look like in your head?

Yeah, I mean, I think the people who are in it for the music are going to survive and the people who are in it just for the cash lifestyle, they probably found an alternative. Sonically, and from an underground perspective, I think it's bigger than ever. And you have people all across the world being able to access sounds and sets and know about artists that you could never have 20 years ago unless you were crate-digging or something like that.

I think it's going to go back to being kind of a purist genre, but everybody wants to experience it. So, I think we'll have a second boom, kind of a Renaissance phase for dance music and I think it just needs to be authentic and it's going to grow pretty quickly.

And for you, as a DJ/producer, what does the energy of the dancefloor feel like from that perspective?

I think a lot of dance music has been pretty geared towards streaming and radio in the past decade. I'd like to see more dancefloor-focused and groove-focused stuff. But again, with that said, I'm also not inhibited to just four-on-the-floor and having to create something that is just super 124 [BPM], all-night-long stuff.

You're actually returning to the stage very soon with your DREAMROCKS shows [at Red Rocks Amphitheatre in Colorado]. What are you most looking forward to about having an audience again?

I'd say to feel it again. Everybody is looking at the future of having these shows, but it's not the same until you really get onstage and it sets in. Right now, we're just talking about it, but talking about it does nothing until you actually get up there and really get in that moment and understand, "What am I performing now?"

It's been over a year and a half, and just to get that spark and get that kind of connection again with the fans is really the first step for me because I don't like talking about making music. I just make it.

Looking back a little bit, what did the massive success of the GRAMMY-nominated single "Faded" feel like for you back in 2014?

That was the beginning of everything. It was such a gargantuan first record that I think the expectations for me have been [high]. After that, I was like, let me just go create bodies of work and really allow people to enter this world that I built, instead of trying to chase hits and trying to replicate and manufacture the same sh*t over and over again.

I really tried not to let ["Faded"] be the metric of what I was doing, even though that was responsible for probably the biggest record released and then charting and blowing up and being in all these countries instantaneously, that I've experienced.

Did you have any idea that it would take off like that?

Nope, but I always just knew that people had a reaction to the record. I just didn't know that 60-plus countries would all be playing it. And that I would hear it in person, in some place in a distant country that I didn't even knew played my records.

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Going a little further back, how did your experience growing up in the Bay Area, attending raves as a teen, inspire you to start making dance music yourself?

Yeah, when I grew up, I think a lot of the culture initially was hip-hop and the hyphy movement that was going on in the Bay Area, [led by] E-40 and other [rappers]. And it was this era, there was a swagger, there was a Bay Area kind of lingo, there was a Bay Area pace of life, a way you'd drive. It's hard to explain unless you grew up in that era there.

A lot of the beats for those hip-hop records were super simple. They weren't super complicated, like sampled Kanye [West] beats or like [old-school] New York hip-hop. At that time, it was very simple, just 808s, synths, and everybody just dance. It wasn't necessarily story-telling, lyrical aficionados. It was "Let's bounce with the cars, have a good time."

I think that influenced a lot of electronic music of that period of time too, in which people just wanted to just have some slappers. And I try to keep that in mind all the time, to try to not over-complicate stuff, to simplify things to where people can just really feel the rhythm around the world, in every single country. Everybody knows how to move their body regardless of if they can understand the lyrics.

When you were younger and going to raves, was there a moment when it clicked, like, "Oh, I can do this. I can make electronic music"?

Yeah. In the beginning, there was a Haight-Ashbury scene, which was a lot more kind of indie [music], like jam bands and rock, with rock clubs. And they had raves in the Cow Palace, which was huge. It was a lot of trance going on at that time, and very deep, elevator house music going on.

I didn't really realize until I was a little bit older, probably 19 or so. It was in the middle of a show and I had this realization that 10,000 people were just staring at one person playing music, and that was enough, that was the future. It didn't need to be eight people up there playing instruments. It was one person doing it. I had a sudden realization like, "Why isn't that me?" and that began the curiosity.

That was a very transitional period in San Francisco's history, before all the tech people came in. It was very much music- and art-driven, from everything to bands, to hip-hop, to DJs.

It seems like it still had a bit more of that lingering '70s vibe. Not so much anymore.

Nah. I mean, there would be Sundays in [Golden Gate] Park, were you'd go rollerblading and there'd be drum circles. There were just more artists there, but then everybody left.

This past year has been so much, a lot of darkness, a lot of unfortunate violence in addition to the pandemic. And it's all especially impacted communities of color. How do you think as a country, as people, we can better support and protect the Asian American community?

For the first time, the Asian American people spoke up and were heard and had a voice. In the last 10 years, I don't really remember where there's been significant, overwhelming support from other people solely on Asian American issues. And I think people now realize that America, in 2021, is made up of a lot of different types of people.

And most of these people have lived here for at least a generation, and they grew up at the same high schools, eat the same food, listen to the same music, they just have different skin color. They don't, especially for Asian Americans who grew up here, really identify with the native country that they're from because they didn't grow up there, but at the same time, they look like people that grew up there.

And you have this expectation of living in both worlds and carrying two burdens. And obviously, there's so many Asian countries and each one has their own unique culture. So it's hard to just generalize all that. But being in America, you are just generalized.

Yeah. That's such a good point, that it really has been an accumulation—it's not like racism against Asian Americans just popped up last year.

No, it hasn't. It's been around since any Asian person has come over, from Chinese people to Japanese people, and back to the Chinese Exclusion Act [in 1882] and Japanese internment camps during World War II.

The good thing is people are talking about it now and they can do their own research and they can go dig a little further. I don't really expect other people necessarily to fully understand, but I think if they're willing to listen, then that's already the first step.

What's your biggest hope for this year?

I think that without live events—everything from sports, to concerts, to just being able to go to city gatherings like San Francisco's Bay To Breakers [race and parade]—people need to see other people doing things that they enjoy. Then, it won't so distant and categorizing different types of people, because at these shows you get to meet new people who like the same things and then you have a personal connection with them. You get to learn about their stories, you get to experience things with them and it makes you much more open to different things.

And I think all the energy stored up, from not being able to release it, has caused people to channel it in other ways, some positive, some negative. If you can't mosh at a show, you're  going to go mosh protest, if can't go trip super hard at a rave, you're going to do it elsewhere, you know what I mean? So, at least there will be a place for people to know that there's other people that are similar to them, and I think that's a big, positive thing no matter what. Bad things happen all the time, but knowing other people go through it with you is probably one of the most comforting things.

Sama' Abdulhadi Is Techno & Techno Is Freedom

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